this post was submitted on 13 Jun 2023
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Relaxed section for discussion and debate that doesn't fit anywhere else. Whether it's advice, how your week is going, a link that's at the back of your mind, or something like that, it can likely go here.


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I know you all who have been here longer than 3 days are probably sick of the whole "leaving reddit" post trend here, but I figured this would be a good thing to talk about because I didn't really see it mentioned too much. A lot of people have spoken on here about poor moderation, the whole API debacle, a sort of downward cycle in terms of content quality etc. Plus, when I did bring these things up on my now-deleted reddit account, people mostly resorted to the whole "You hate capitalism yet you exist in it" argument. I also wrote a sort of summary for this in my application, so whoever read my application doesn't really need to read this. I basically said the same shit just shorter.

But for me it was just because people got kinda mean? What I mean is that over the past 4 years (probably accentuated by the pandemic), it felt less and less like a place where you could just talk to somebody. With every post I made, it felt like I was in a competition not just in terms of karma but in terms of making something that pleased as many people as possible. Every title needed to be perfect for the grammar people, every fact needed to be perfect for the fact people, everything needed to be as apolitical as possible.

And even with all of these unwritten rules, I came to realize that there really are just two types of posts or comments on reddit. There's jokes, and then there's debates. Jokes ended up being a little more lenient in terms of unwritten rules so I think that's why there's so fucking many of them on reddit and it's almost unavoidable to escape the pit of sarcasm in reddit comment sections. But with debates, it felt like with every comment I made, people came in expecting me to either agree with them or refute a point they made. And if I didn't make "a point," I wasn't contributing. I couldn't just go "Yeah I like Metal Gear Solid V, too," I had to go "Yeah I like Metal Gear Solid V, too, and the guy you're responding to is a fucking moron for not doing so," or "No, you're a dumbass, MGS4 is way better." I remember one time I joined into a conversation and somebody actually replied bullying me for not "contributing" and for posting useless comments, as if I were somehow wasting their time by not trying to argue with them.

And what's even worse is people just don't seem to know how to be nice about it? Obviously with the internet, people are going to bully you at some point but on reddit it was just all. the. time. Every post I made, every comment I made there was somebody who didn't like it and felt the need to tell me about it by insulting me or my family or my cat. Everyone was mean. It felt truly impossible to disagree with a person on reddit without insulting them, because that was the culture that was accepted there.

While I don't use TikTok, I ended up stumbling upon this series of them by way of YouTube Shorts called "Average Redditor..." by The Slappable Jerk and I really think they perfectly encapsulate what it's like to browse reddit, and I hate that it took me so long to realize that's what my experience was like. I kept watching them and going "Nah, nobody's like that," but then the more I used reddit the more I realized "Yeah, it's kind of everybody including myself." As you can see in the video I linked, the guy is either joking or debating and he's not nice about either one, and frankly that's kind of how every single one of my reddit experiences has been so far. I can't really remember the last time anybody has been nice to me on reddit. Maybe that's my fault and my brain is suppressing me from realizing it, but I do think it's a problem inherent in the system if I'm seeing other people doing it to each other also.

I got banned from reddit as a whole a week ago for reporting a guy for calling me a "spastic loser" after getting angry when another guy got angry for me not reading some deeper meanings in his 1 sentence post. I think that whole really weird run-on sentence should tell you all you need to know about my reddit experience these past few years. Funnily enough despite it breaking the subreddit's rules against insults, it was "report abuse."

I ended up hearing about Lemmy while browsing today and I deleted my account just now. I saw probably a couple dozen posts at most. It seems kinda slow here. But you know what I didn't see at all? People fighting. Calling each other names. Insulting each other. I saw debates and arguments but I straight up didn't see the same kind of debates and arguments that I saw on reddit. On Reddit I could probably go 3 or 4 posts without that happening, but even posts of 12 comments will always have rude jerks on them. Now I'm still new here, and I have heard that there are toxic and xenophobic instances of Lemmy that are on massive blocklists, but Beehaw so far has been nothing short of just plain joyful. It's so wonderful to see people online just. talking. to each other. And while I see people swearing (I did it myself in this post), it really just haven't seen it directed at other users on here. On reddit it seems like there's such a big culture of if you're gonna insult somebody you go for the deepest-cut insult possible. On here I just haven't seen that.

TL;DR: People on reddit are mean. Beehaw (and some other instances of Lemmy I signed up for) are far from that.

/rant

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[–] whinestone_cowboy@beehaw.org 15 points 1 year ago (5 children)

There have been several times I’ve wanted to post on here and haven’t because I’m worried about how people are going to treat me for a single post. It’s hard to come out of that thinking on here and actually participate.

[–] sarsaparilyptus@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well for what it's worth, you can't be downvoted on Beehaw. Plus there are way more people here who aren't dicks than there are on reddit, which helps too.

[–] BendyLemmy@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Cool - but I'm not on Beehaw (I'm on lemmy.world) to add to the confusion, and I see here both an up and down arrow...

Plus there are way more people here who aren't dicks

Well there are just WAY less people here, and the barrier to entry is still pretty high - dicks (and millions of good people) are still filtered out by this.

[–] sarsaparilyptus@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Fun fact, when interacting with Beehaw, users from other instances can indeed click downvote, but it only updates on the client side, no downvote ever actually gets cast. if you're on Android, the newest version of Jerboa no longer shows the downvote button in (most of) the places where it's disabled.

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[–] yote_zip@pawb.social 3 points 1 year ago

I've only seen one instance of an argument where both people had 0 point comments all the way down. There's a lot of positivity and thoughtfulness here with the early crowd - I hope it keeps up

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[–] Plus_a_Grain_of_Salt@beehaw.org 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I just wanted to bring up something I hated about reddit that no one mentioned, just to get it out of my system; ask a reasonable question? Prepare to be mass downvoted. Like why? Who is downvoting this? How did that offend you? I'd understand if they were framed weirdly or completely unrelated to the issue, but a reasonable on topic question shouldn't get that treatment.

[–] furrowsofar@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I love the tendency to get down voted for actually giving a correct answer. I sometimes replied to people who got down voted about this both sad and amusing situation. Especially if I liked their answer.

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[–] towerful@beehaw.org 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I find myself less guarded on beehaw in some ways, and more guarded in others.

Firstly, I feel I can be more authentic. Discussions always seem to be in good faith, and I often come away learning something, reconsidering something, or just being more aware of other viewpoints. Whether I participate in the discussion or just read it.
It's just more enjoyable overall.

Which leads me onto how I am being more guarded. I am really trying to consider other viewpoints before even engaging with posts or discussions.
And I dislike that this is an effort for me.
But I like that I have realised it, and I now get to make an effort to be better.

[–] bermuda@beehaw.org 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I think with the lower userbase, it's much less easier to say something others would find abhorrent or rude and then sulk away into the shadows of millions of other users. People can see you and go "that's that person who said some fucked shit." So for me at least I've found myself being a bit more guarded, but I think that's a good thing.

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[–] yote_zip@pawb.social 12 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I think the lack of global/account karma will help this in a way. Reddit was practically full of performers, doing tricks for treats. Jokes were easy tricks. There's no real value in posting garbage posts/comments when there's no long-term benefit for the user. I think we'll see a lot less cruft here, especially as people deprogram themselves from that habit.

I don't think people debated primarily for karma, but maybe with the rest of the performative aspects gone, people will stop feeling pressured to show off to others - publicly dunking on someone is another way to perform for an audience and receive validation points.

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[–] OrlandoDoom 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You hate capitalism yet you exist in it

Yeah i hear that

[–] Kuma@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

It is comments like these that makes me miss reaction buttons! I want you to know I laughed out irl when I saw your comment! And I can't show that with out commenting. But writing only "hahaha" or 😂 feels a bit weird haha. But now you know 😂

[–] Synaptic_Jack@fedia.io 10 points 1 year ago

I agree with most everything you said. My personal take: all the Karma upvoting/downvoting stuff shaped community behavior to a sort of drastic degree - you either say something pleasing/sarcastic to the community and get upvoted or you got buried with downvotes for injecting an alternative viewpoint. After a while, I found myself going along with something just because a post had a massive number of upvotes… not realizing that the majority of readers very rarely go past the top 3-5 comments on a thread. So whatever was on top was usually the highest voted, and it was most often a sarcastic response to a legitimate question someone posted.

[–] 7749LlamaDrama@beehaw.org 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This is not terribly different from my experience. I was getting pretty worn down by the hive mind effect that some subs developed and how badly you could get downvoted or yelled at if you went against the grain. I think Reddit had become perhaps TOO big. There was just so many people on it that it felt like competing mobs.

I think that sites like Lemmy will start to take off, we just have to give them time. And I will need to figure out mobile with this site, cuz I’m on my phone right now and I can’t read any comments under a post 😂 I’ll get therr

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[–] furrowsofar@beehaw.org 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I liked the “You hate capitalism yet you exist in it” ... BS. Whoever said capitalism should decide policy, run the government, or our lives is nuts. It is up to us to define the rules under which capitalism runs not the other way around. Besides when essentially there is only 1 Reddit... we are talking about a monopoly not a competitive business anyway and a century ago this was decided to be bad. You do not have a true competitive market unless you have say 7 or so mostly identical players anyway... but of course we let everyone consolidate down to 3.

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[–] loops@beehaw.org 8 points 1 year ago

I fart in your general direction, your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries!


Really though, I was part of two private subs that were invite only. The smaller community and how users were "recruited" made a huge difference. I could post things there that I wouldn't on public forums, mostly because of the increased anonymity, but also because there wouldn't be any nastiness.

[–] Two9A@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

...people came in expecting me to either agree with them or refute a point they made. And if I didn’t make “a point,” I wasn’t contributing.

Exactly this; towards the end, I was writing a comment every couple of weeks on Reddit, and most of the reason why is that I felt I didn't have "enough" of a contribution to make.

[–] dreadpirateroberts@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You wrote about this in your application? What application? Do some instances require an essay to join?

[–] bermuda@beehaw.org 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Beehaw requires an application to join. No, it wasn't an essay. They just asked me three questions, and I wrote about a paragraph (5 sentences or so) for each question. This is basically what I wrote for the first two questions, just with a lot more words.

[–] dreadpirateroberts@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That’s really interesting and wasn’t my experience at all. I wonder what other requirements are out there for different instances?

[–] macarthur_park@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Lemmy.world just has a single question, asking why you wanted to join. I think the purpose is primarily to prevent automated account creation for bots. I gave a 3 sentence answer and was admitted within a few minutes.

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[–] Sinister_Crayon@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

There is another aspect that you didn't get into; I am on a lot of subreddits where I attempt to help people with questions. r/zfs, r/ceph, r/homelab and r/datahoarder are ones I frequent among others where if people have questions I and others attempt to help them. This is neither a debate nor humour, and is one area where Lemmy still has a lot of catching up to do... not least of which because the specialized communities don't yet exist.

I haven't left Reddit yet... I'm still watching and waiting but it IS nice to have Lemmy and Tildes as alternatives (though I'm more digging Lemmy so far).

[–] overlordror@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I think those communities will eventually arrive on the fediverse. If anything, building the community yourself and gently guiding people to the alternative could help fence sitters who don't understand the full implications of reddit's new policies for the 1% of power users who actually create most of the content.

90% are lurkers, 9% will comment and upvote, while 1% of users generate content for the others.

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[–] April@fedia.io 7 points 1 year ago

My experience on reddit is very similar to yours. The more niche subreddits you could get away from it a bit but.... yeah. the video you shared captures it perfectly.

As for beehaw, I'm not on there so idk. I joined kbin/fedia but my experience on the fediverse sounds similar to your own. Lots of people just chatting and talking about how it feels like "the old internet" and not really any of that reddit snark/heated debate.

[–] LemmyAtem@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago

I've been commenting on here tons that I feel like reddit has morphed into every thread being an argument or a meme-off. I used to love just shooting the shit in the comments of a funny/cool post. It's been gone for years and so far it's what I like most about Lemmy. Way fewer comments sure, but like I'll go back and forth just talking with way more people.

[–] nii236@lemmy.jtmn.dev 6 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Have you ever visited the comments section of Hacker News?

[–] bermuda@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, I'm not really a hacking person. You could call me more of a PC "hobbyist." Never got into the nitty gritty stuff like hacking or programming.

[–] nii236@lemmy.jtmn.dev 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The comment wars on those are absolutely insane! Reddit is pretty tame compared to those

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[–] elonspez@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

If lemmy gets big enough, it will be just like that. Your problem is not a Reddit problem but an Internet forum with nested threads problem. It's much harder to hyperfocus on a comment in a flat comment structure.

[–] lwgrs@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

An Internet ... problem

Yeah, that's 100% it. On the Internet in 2023, everyone needs to be right or win with their comment. It's off-putting when you've been on the Internet longer than Gen Z has been alive.

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[–] Damage@feddit.it 5 points 1 year ago

In wise words of Commander Data: "I realized, it is the struggle itself that is most important. We must strive to be more than we are, Lal. It does not matter that we will never reach our ultimate goal. The effort "

You now understand the importance of free software just like you already knew the importance of free knowledge. You don't need to force yourself into shapes you don't fit, but you can help move us all into a better future for everybody.

[–] Silviecat44@vlemmy.net 5 points 1 year ago

I was constantly dragged into multi comment long debates on reddit where people would insult and attack me and my opinions. Like you said, Lemmy is much nicer.

[–] pushka@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

Jokes and debates ey? Sounds like Facebook 😵😵

[–] Drinkoffee@fedia.io 4 points 1 year ago

People are people wherever they are. I have no hopes of getting rid of some kind of people just by moving to a different aggregator.

I am removing my Reddit account since I learned they are punishing those who help them be who they are.

I don't give a flying sh*t about what anyone thinks of me. Yes I live in capitalism and I don't need to justify my decision.

[–] hedge@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

I fortunately did not have any really bad experiences on reddit, but the one thing that really annoyed me about it was all the e-bling that seemed to adorn every page. Coins! Karma! New shoes for your avatar! Like a casino. I tried to use ublock to eliminate some of the distractions, but then I found that blocking some annoyances also would block stuff I actually needed to click on, like from drop down menus. Libreddit was a godsend, at least for browsing and searching reddit, because it removed all the junk. I can also remember having trouble doing really simple things like cutting and pasting or rewriting sentences in something i'd posted. I don't know how many employees reddit has--probably more than all lemmy admins combined--and yet for all that they have a site that just doesn't work all that well, for me at least.

[–] thegiddystitcher@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I know it's not the point of your post (which I did read and also agree with) but just in case nobody else has mentioned it..

In your summary you said you'd signed up for "other instances of Lemmy" and I just want to make sure you know you don't need to do that to join communities in other places! :)

[–] Jeef@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I also signed up for multiple instances only because i found they are not quick with syncing with eachother. communities, posts and comments I'm finding show up differently depending on the instance

[–] thegiddystitcher@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago

Yeah everything is taking an absolute hammering atm and federation is all over the place. I've got two accounts myself. Just couldn't bear the idea of OP having like ten accounts for different instances by accident :D

[–] BlackCoffee@fedia.io 4 points 1 year ago

I couldn't just go "Yeah I like Metal Gear Solid V, too,"

I would like to say to please DO post these kinds of things if you indeed like a product or service or whatever.

When I am deciding on a purchase I also liked to look at reddit threads at what the experiences are from the people who already purchased the service/product.

I would scan the threads and also look at how many people just agree with a point that is being made.

It is moronic that people see this as not "contributing", it actually also helps me as a consumer decide on the purchases I make and not all the comments have to be eloquent about it.

[–] Rentlar@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

Been using Lemmy for a couple months total. So long as Lemmy continues to grow, these threads remain full of positivity as they mostly are, and as long as instance operators don't get tired of it, I say new users should keep posting about what they really like here kind of as an introduction.

[–] grundelgrump@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago
[–] BendyLemmy@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

I know you all who have been here longer than 3 days are probably sick of the whole "leaving Reddit" post trend here.

Hmm some might be excited to see some new content coming up...

I ended up hearing about Lemmy while browsing today and I deleted my account just now.

Not too hasty I hope.

I'm more of the school that believes we need to create our alternatives to evil empires.

You know - Facebook, YouTube, Reddit, Quora - whatever your addictive poison is.

Once similar communities (popular now on Reddit) are mirrored in the Fediverse, then users should find it easier to migrate.

So Fediverse jokes might start being better than r/jokes etc.

Only time will tell, really, whether the toxicity of Reddit will come with us. I'm guessing that people are people, and we'll just have to see how it pans out.

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