this post was submitted on 27 Jun 2024
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[–] Pat_Riot@lemmy.today 100 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (23 children)

Or , hear me out, what if US auto makers stop trying to force overpriced oversized trash on us? Maybe try to compete?

[–] Grimy@lemmy.world 22 points 4 months ago

They get a lot of bribes from the oil industry. This is about sabotage, not competition.

[–] Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world 18 points 4 months ago (2 children)

You don't want a giant ass pickup truck that drives like a tank, takes up 1.5 times the parking space and goes 8 miles on the gallon?

[–] Pat_Riot@lemmy.today 14 points 4 months ago (2 children)

No, I want a light pickup from the 80s or 90s but with a warranty and a full size bed and no back seat. Y'know, something kinda utilitarian. A fucking Ranger is bigger now than an F-150 was in 2000. An F-150 is a goddamn SUV with a worthless 4 foot bed. What the hell is that good for?

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[–] SeattleRain@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

It's not due to a lack of will. They can't produce cars as cheaply because they've spent the last 50 years closing factories and buying back their own stock while China invested in their industrial capacity.

[–] Nomecks@lemmy.ca 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)
[–] Pat_Riot@lemmy.today 3 points 4 months ago

Wet blankets don't burn well

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[–] Rooskie91@discuss.online 46 points 4 months ago (5 children)

Sounds like US automaker higher prices are the actual threat.

[–] ChocoboRocket@lemmy.world 19 points 4 months ago (1 children)

For what it's worth, a government can absolutely subsidized an industry in an attempt to capture a foreign market.

There's a reason Japan and Korea have their own auto industries despite being next door to the largest manufacturing nation on earth, and it isn't because they're somehow making and distributing them for even less than China.

That being said, several automakers have blindfolded themselves about the type of cars people want. I do hope this threat is significant enough that automakers actually shift to mini-electric transportation options.

If not, I'd be happy enough buying a small Chinese electric even if the taxes made it equivalent to a larger "western" vehicle. Because it's what I want to have available to me and it's nice to fuck capitalists with capitalism.

[–] UnpledgedCatnapTipper@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 4 months ago (3 children)

It'd be nice if instead of putting massive tariffs, we would just subsidise production of comparable, small cars.

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[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago (1 children)

June 11th 2024 GM announced that the board approved a 6 Billion dollar stock buyback plan.

That is a direct wealth transfer from the company to the owners.

We have met the enemy, and they are us.

[–] BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The next quarter is the only thing that matters.

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago (1 children)

And this is why we will bail them out again.

That 9 billion could have been spent on making a low cost EV to compete. It could have been spent as retention bonuses for their best workers. It could have been spent so many things that would secure their future in a changing world.

[–] BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

I think it's as true for government as it is for corporations. Nobody is the adult in the room.

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[–] TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com 43 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (8 children)

Why is competition for US auto makers a bad thing ?

[–] Allonzee@lemmy.world 46 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Because "free markets, competition, being voluntary" are propaganda by capitalists using their owned media and purchased government to make its victims double as its defenders.

The goal of market capitalism is to end competition often by buying out up and coming rivals to kill the threat, manipulate the markets to your advantage using anything from bribery to cost benefit analysis of potential consequences/fines for sociopathic actions to potential profits, and conspire with your economic sector to coerce the workers you need into accepting less.

This is just expanded indentured servitude with a marketing team.

[–] BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world 23 points 4 months ago (2 children)

Because we don't like free markets. We like the illusion of choice, but the security of monopoly.

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[–] flambonkscious@sh.itjust.works 17 points 4 months ago (2 children)

This isn't competition, it sounds like the CCP heavily subsidises the manufacture, in an attempt to kill the American industry off.

Thinking in decades or centuries is a very powerful tool!

[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 14 points 4 months ago (2 children)

This isn’t competition, it sounds like the CCP heavily subsidises the manufacture

China: "Here, have a bunch of cheap electric vehicles to replace your aging fleet of ICE engines. Don't worry, we're picking up a part of the tab."

Americans: "What a great deal! We'll buy them in droves."

State Government: "Not so fast! This wouldn't be fair to honest, hard working domestic car companies like Tesla and Volvo and Toyota."

Thinking in decades or centuries is a very powerful tool!

Shame we're only capable of thinking about the next quarter's profits.

[–] AFC1886VCC@reddthat.com 10 points 4 months ago (8 children)

There's something very amusing about the nominally communist China beating the capitalist powerhouse USA at its own game.

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[–] SeattleRain@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago (4 children)

The US subsidizes their EV industry twice as much as China. The real why China can do this is because the US has gutted their industrial base in favor of financialization while China built up their industrial base.

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[–] toofpic@lemmy.world 19 points 4 months ago

Yeah, automakers pose a threat to automakers!

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 16 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

I doubt I will ever buy from the Big 3 again. Bailout parasites. Tried of these piece of shit too big too fail corps pulling this crap.

My next car will be a Chinese EV, if I have to drive it over the Mexican border myself.

[–] ShepherdPie@midwest.social 9 points 4 months ago (1 children)

This opinion is ridiculous as "the big 3" doesn't even exist anymore and hasn't for over a decade. Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep is owned by a Scandanavian company.

Also this isn't written to protect the few remaining American companies, it's to protect the entire auto industry in the US including Kia/Hyundai, VW, Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, BMW, Subaru, etc.

China selling vehicles with massive subsidies that allow them to undercut everyone else in the market isn't good for anybody but China because as soon as they put their competitors out of business, they will jack the price of their cars up as high as they want.

This is the same reason why when Walmart comes to a new town, all the similar local businesses shut down because it's impossible to compete with their deep pockets, but now you're advocating for it on a national scale which will potentially cost hundreds of thousands of domestic manufacturing jobs.

[–] schizoidman@lemmy.ml 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

At this point I believe its the international market that is subsidising Chinese EVs. Take a look at the byd dolphin mini / seagull. It is priced starting at $21,000 in mexico while the price in China is from $9700. You find many other examples of the same car models sold at much higher price overseas than locally in China.

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[–] GJdan@programming.dev 14 points 4 months ago
[–] Feliskatos@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago (1 children)

China seems to be succeeding in EV vehicles, not just cars, airplanes too. I'm sorta pining for the days when we were talking about a North America Union. These days its all about protectionism and wars. :(

[–] ynazuma@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

You can thank Trump for gutting NAFTA, making US companies weaker in the bloc as a result

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[–] Allonzee@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (3 children)

The Earth is 🔥burning🔥, by our own hands, and we'd still rather play team sports for greedy sociopaths than prioritize even doing it a little slower with cheap EVs.

The Earth will heal in a few million years once we've destroyed ourselves. ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

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[–] MushuChupacabra@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago

Have they tried being competitive?

[–] unmagical@lemmy.ml 8 points 4 months ago

Sounds like some healthy competition the caps are always on about

[–] jaschen@lemm.ee 8 points 4 months ago (4 children)

I'm super conflicted about this. I want cheap EVs, but at the same time, China is intentionally dumping their prices to kill competition so they can later jack it up.

[–] afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 8 points 4 months ago (6 children)

It won't matter how fair things were if we are all dead.

[–] jaschen@lemm.ee 6 points 4 months ago (4 children)

I mean, EVs are not going to save the earth. Investments/innovations into our infrastructures will.

Nuclear power is the only thing currently that can save us. Unfortunately, we have ill-informed people not understanding what nuclear is.

[–] LesserAbe@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I just posted this article separately, but renewables and particularly solar combined with better storage are enough to save us. https://powering-the-planet.ghost.io/untitled-3/

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[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

They should be very concerned. However they have the advantage of time, place, protectionism. They already have factories and employees. The technology is known. They’re admitting they are aware of the market. The only way they can lose is if they don’t even try ….

We’ve spent years saying how short sighted they are to not be able to look ahead of the immediate term, now they’re admitting they can’t even look ahead 2-3 years

[–] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 7 points 4 months ago

What? A full body crumple zone vehicle!? Where do I sign up!?

[–] blindbunny@lemmy.ml 5 points 4 months ago

Good, maybe GM will have the follow through to make an electric car successful now.

[–] halferect@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago

Oh no! Won't someone think of the poor automakers!

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