The hawaiian state had banned teaching hawaiian until the 90s
Hawaii has been occupied since the late 1800s
They only recently started teaching in schools that the overthrow even happened
this post was submitted on 03 Sep 2023
4 points (100.0% liked)
chapotraphouse
13447 readers
1000 users here now
Banned? DM Wmill to appeal.
No anti-nautilism posts. See: Eco-fascism Primer
Vaush posts go in the_dunk_tank
Dunk posts in general go in the_dunk_tank, not here
Don't post low-hanging fruit here after it gets removed from the_dunk_tank
founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
shitlibs love posting that picture of the guy standing in front of the tank, as some kind of own, when if that happened in the US the cops would have gleefully run him over and then been made into a celebrity for it
Death to America
So you tankies agree that Tiananmen Square massacre happened? Good job
yes the tank man at tinyman square from that famous picture got squished like a grape by the tank
My favourite bit about the video is that the tank column is leaving Tiananmen when this guy stops them, and I always get the impression he's essentially asking the tankers to go back to the Square.
Naturally the lib framing is that he's blocking them from entering the Square
Look it's important that Western countries don't show the full vid, otherwise their citizens would think they can do the same to cops in the US, can you imagine what they'd do to a guy walking around on one of their armored vehicles?
So that's why China allows open conversation about the incident right? If it's all just a big misunderstanding, they should be happy to allow their citizens to share the facts. Certainly they wouldn't take steps to ban all mention of the incident as if there was something terrible there they wanted to hide.
So that's why China allows open conversation about the incident right?
This actually gets discussed in Chinese state media. The idea that people get -500 social credit score when they barely mention Tiananmen Square is mostly Western propaganda. Maybe somebody else will link you articles about this from China, i'm not gonna bother because they've already been linked ITT and you liberals don't read them anyway. But of course they're around.
Your post also shows a vast ignorance about how propaganda even works in the first place, whether we're talking China or the USA or any other country. That's because you get your ideas about politics from idiots like the antisemitic snitch and cousin r*pist George Orwell and then you think dictatorships work like 1984 and completely miss that you're living in a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. Propaganda is not about hiding things from the public, that simply doesn't work well enough. You can downplay the truth, but you'll never get rid of it entirely. We're one example of that, existing and driving you nuts in spite of the largest propaganda and surveilance apparatus in the world working against us. And the same applies for the smaller, less overarching, less well funded Chinese "intelligence community", as you'd call their spies and snitches and secret police if they were Western spies and snitches and secret police. For example, anybody in China can install a VPN and look at Western news sources if they care, and a lot of younger people actually do that, just as you can come here and get exposed to facts that counter Western narratives.This is why propaganda works by emphasizing what you want the people to hear to the point were the noise drowns out what you do not want them to hear. By establishing counter-narratives to the truth. For example, you get flooded with the still image of the guy standing in front of the tank instead of the full video. You get fed the story about China somehow wafflestomping 10.000 corpses down the sewer drains by rolling over them with tanks until they're mush, as if that could even work, even though the only source for this is something 1 (in words: ONE) British diplomat has allegedly heard from somebody in Beijing. But because people like you never actually check their sources, you think there's hundreds of accounts of that incident just because there's hundreds of articles citing that one unnamed British diplomat or each other, and that's all over reddit, that site that has not only ruined your sense of humor and your ability to ever have a good faith discussion with another human being again, but that has also turned you into a mindless drone lashing out at anybody questioning the racist, national chauvinist narratives that have been blared into your ears until you came here 3 months because the pedophile spez threatened to take away the apps that allowed you to more conveniently doomscroll that hellsite on your mobile phone.
What you usually do not get to see in Western media are the Chinese cop strung up on a lamppost and set on fire by the protesters, or that many of the counterrevolutionaries where, what a surprise, reactionaries that earlier the same year took part in riots against African exchange students at Chinese universities.
Anyway, it was fun yelling at you, have a nice day.
'massacre'
What do you think happened exactly?
https://www.liberationnews.org/tiananmen-the-massacre-that-wasnt-2/
Edit: the other source I was looking for
https://archives.cjr.org/behind_the_news/the_myth_of_tiananmen.php
The thing to get is that there was no massacre on the square, and in fact there's no verifiable evidence that anybody died there at all that day. Many people did die elsewhere, in street clashes with soldiers, after demonstrators killed and burned a few of them.
I would like to note also that bringing up events like Tiananmen Square, especially heavily propagandized and warped versions of them, without an understanding of the complex political context which led up to them, is not a gotcha, it's just ignorant. Not saying you're doing that or that you would do that, but it's something others do frequently when they invoke it round here.
US Military Pysops Division literally bragged about how successful they were with Tiananmen in this recruitment video
Edit: Found out about this video from this article which was linked on hexbear lol https://www.fridayeveryday.com/how-psy-ops-warriors-fooled-me-about-tiananmen-square-a-warning/
Ah, I remember that. Almost feels like the cocky bastards are mocking us at this point.
With no actual evidence, it just seems like China's word against the US's. Neither are sources I trust, and both have motives to lie. I'm just going to assume nothing.
I said there was no evidence that a massacre took place in Tiananmen Square. What actually took place there is well evidenced by eyewitness testimony, a fair bit of which is contained in the two sources I linked.
Edit: I also take issue with the assertion that both the US and China are equally untrustworthy, particularly when the Chinese government freely admits that violent clashes between civilians and PLA personnel took place that day, something they would certainly have incentive to lie about if they were as untrustworthy as all that.
I recall seeing eyewitness testimony supporting both sides. Although, its possible the testimonies I saw were about the clashes that China admits to, and were simply framed as being about a massacre. They didn't seem very specific or definitive.
Even though the Chinese government admits to those violent clashes, its still very plausible they would lie about a massacre. Its much easier to justify that than it would be an actual massacre, especially when the civilians act violently. Its also possible that admitting some aspect of it would benefit them more than complete denial.
You'd have a point there, if there wasn't ample photographic evidence which also suggests that no concerted massacre took place, in the square or elsewhere. All available photographic evidence that I've seen supports the Chinese government's version of events: scattered street clashes which unfortunately featured some quite heavy duty violence, but no mass formation of tanks coming in and deliberately schwacking everybody in sight.
You make convincing arguments, and I'm sure you are correct to some degree. I do not believe that the dramatized events suggested by the west are accurate. But, I still think it was a disgusting waste of life that could potentially be described as a massacre.
Also here in the UK a large majority believe that “Empire” was a nice pleasant good thing that did nothing but good to the countries we merely ’looked after’.
We call the ones that haven’t fully told us to ‘fuck off’ the ‘Commonwealth’ and hold lots of PR events like Olympic-esque games and ‘rich monarch waves at people who’s country has a GDP less than their hat largely because we stole all their resources before they could use them to develop’ tours.
I remember that old black and white footage of queen whoeverthefuck (victoria?) tossing little pieces of food to the ground for african toddlers to scramble for in the exact same way you or I would feed pigeons in the park.
So are y'all china simps? I'm so confused still about hexbear.
We're very clear about our politics. There's nothing to be confused about.
We're communists, anarchists, and other socialists. Hexbear is a non-sectarian left space so there is some variation on details or by degrees but we all share a revolutionary socialist perspective. That includes support for AES states. That includes educating ourselves about AES states instead of blindly accepting western propoganda.
The only one simping anything here is you. You're the one that uncritically repeats state department talking points and believes CIA propaganda. Go investigate these claims for yourself - plenty of resources have been made available in this thread alone, yet all you could think of was this deficient condescending comment.
What CIA propaganda have I repeated?
If you were actually interested in a good faith discussion you wouldn't have asked a question I can see would be answered by you interacting with the many resources users have already made available to you in this thread. Begone dronie
A little bit, I mean they did do this:
Corporate media and politicians lie and present biased framing to get people to hate whoever they want them to hate. We've seen it too many times and anytime we try to push back or ask for sources we get labelled as bots, shills, or tankies. We don't mind criticism of any state, but we expect it to be well documented and framed in a reasonable context, and not just rumormongering.
Not a simp, just dont swallow US narrative as truth. Why would i trust the country that regularly tries to debt trap me? 1+1 isnt China Perfext Utopia, its 1+1 is The US is evil and untrustworthy
Very fair, thanks
If this post was reversed and posted by some liberal on mander.xyz, and a hexbear came into the comments and said
"so y'all Western simps?"
The replies would not be pointed, supply evidence, or otherwise actually informative replies as you have below this comment right now
There would be 5 comments saying 'whataboutism' because you liberals have no ground to stand on, so you deflect
When we make posts like these, we have reasons for doing so beyond the vibes
We believe things for reasons, because they survive rigorous analysis and form accurately to the world as observed
They do appear to be China simps.
Nobody condones the Chinese surveilance Städte, which is very much like the US surveilance state. Nobody condones the Chinese liberalization of markets which make the Chinese economy resemble US capitalism in some regards. Nobody condones attacks on environmentalists, may they happen in China or anywhere else. So no, simp wouldn't be a good term here
Nobody condones the Chinese liberalization of markets which make the Chinese economy resemble US capitalism in some regards.
Criticism of the decision is valid but I definitely think there were merits to it. Despite the increases in standard of living shown in my favorite graph, many Chinese were still living in extreme poverty when the reforms were initiated. According to the World Bank, more than 850 million Chinese people have been lifted out of extreme poverty, and China's poverty rate fell from 88 percent in 1981 to 0.7 percent in 2015. And China's rise as an economic power has allowed it to help establish an alternative economic bloc, which means now other countries can have access to foreign trade while maintaining more control of domestic policy than they would through the West.
It's a complicated issue and I understand why some people consider it a deviation but I also understand the reasons for doing it and I think it's met with some degree of success. I don't think we really have an official line on it.
On US education I remember in 8th grade the one thing I learned about Marx was one paragraph and was basically just "he wrote the Communist Manifesto and believed that history was a cycle of conflicts between classes." And I was just like "Well what is communism? Isn't that going to be important going forward?" I guess it wasn't and I never learned what Communism/Socialism actually is or what the USSR did beyond "be authoritarian" until I was an adult.
You probably didn't actually learn what capitalism is either until later, given that Marx is the most comprehensive breakdown of how capitalism functions, so much so that even the economics courses at universities use Marx for that part.
The intentional avoidance of teaching how the system works is essential to making sure people don't question it. You don't want your workers knowing how it works, merely accepting it. Understanding how it works is reserved for the ruling class.
Question to American comrades: How are the genocides of native Americans and ~~Lebensraum~~ manifest destiny being taught in American schools? What does the average American know?
I learned Christopher Columbus would chop the hands off of indians that didn't follow orders, and we wiped out 95% plus of their population
But I went to school in California. Unfortunately, other states can teach their version of history
I definitely remember reading about the trail of tears in a small town US high School
Ok, is that the only broken treaty you were taught about?
I thought the indians did teach colonists how to grow crops like corn and often shared food with them. But then large amounts of Indians would die from a plague every time the colonists visited (disease moment), and then they became suspicious that they were purposefully killing them. And then the colonists grew suspicious that the Indians were planning on killing them and then they all killed each other. Except the colonists had guns and so they won.