this post was submitted on 24 Apr 2024
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Lord of the memes

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[–] grue@lemmy.world 62 points 8 months ago (4 children)

"Urban sprawl" is an oxymoron. Dense urban areas are good, actually; it's only the suburbs that sprawl.

[–] FireRetardant@lemmy.world 46 points 8 months ago (2 children)

It should be called suburban sprawl

[–] merari42@lemmy.world 19 points 8 months ago

Agreed. Suburban sprawl I meant

[–] blanketswithsmallpox@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

It should be called the place with trees and loosely densely population that would be okay if cars weren't so ubiquitous because some people like space but let's make sure not to exclude minorities so people don't end up racist.

[–] TheOctonaut@mander.xyz 18 points 8 months ago (1 children)

This is not true? Lots of urban areas can sprawl, not least because of car centric planning (big car parks between islands of actual land use; roads built to ease the traffic of roads; urban 'islands' of tall and dense occupation connected by road with slivers of green in-between that don't serve to actually offer a natural environment. Kuala Lumpur features all of these, for example) but also as economic centres decline and become disused and new developments in other areas spread.

[–] psud@aussie.zone 2 points 8 months ago

Especially they sprawl when the developers are allowed to do as they please. They want the most profitable option, which is barren and opposed to what people and local government usually want

[–] BarrelAgedBoredom@lemm.ee 9 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Nah. Sprawl is real, I live in one of the worst offenders

[–] grue@lemmy.world -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I know sprawl is real. I'm saying it isn't "urban."

[–] DaSaw@midwest.social 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)
[–] hglman@lemmy.ml 1 points 8 months ago

Not really.

[–] scholar@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago (2 children)
[–] grue@lemmy.world 15 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Tokyo (mostly) isn't sprawl; that's just how much space 40 million people take up.

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe 2 points 8 months ago

That's still urban sprawl though. It doesn't need to be inefficient, it just needs to be constantly expanding.

[–] lud@lemm.ee 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

That is still better than the alternative of suburbs. Could it be better designed or something. Idk, maybe.

[–] scholar@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The urban area is 80 miles across

[–] lud@lemm.ee 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Where do you suggest all the people go?

Are you really anti urban or are you anti people?

[–] scholar@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

I'm anti so many people that you need a dense urban area 80 miles across to fit them all *edit on looking it up it's not all that dense, it's just a big sprawling city

[–] lud@lemm.ee 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

What do you suppose we do, kill them?

[–] scholar@lemmy.world 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Implement proper demography and population growth schemes so that you don't end up with so many people in the first place, manage your population distribution on a national level so as not to overwhelm the natural resources of any one area, build walkable communities with a variety of density to suit peoples differing needs

[–] lud@lemm.ee 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

So you propose a population control scheme where people won't be allowed to have children unless allowed by the government or some kind of max cap of children per parent?

The government should also relocate people or forbidd them to have children unless they move?

Isn't it honestly best to have very dense areas so that the real natural resources (which I assume you mean trees and shit) are untouched.

I don't see what walkable communities have anything to do with this. Dense urban areas are usually the most walkable areas.

Most cities if not all cities aren't equally dense everywhere so we can check that.

[–] scholar@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)
  1. One-child policies have been sucessful in China and India, disincentivising large families doesn't need to include banning people from having kids

  2. No, the government should encourage busineses to disperse throughout the country and build affordable housing in multiple smaller cities

  3. Again, no. Nature can only cope with a certain amount of foot traffic, the natural areas surrounding a city will survive better with fewer people

  4. Tokyo is over 80 miles across. It takes over an hour to drive from one side to the other on the motorway It also isn't particularly dense; it has a lower population density than London or Madrid. It's just big.

Going back to the original post, compare the Shire to Mordor. If you had as many hobbits as you had orcs they wouldn't all fit in the shire (without building highrises). Their low density village centric way of life only works because there aren't very many of them.

[–] Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

china literally had to end their one child policy because it was causing shitloads of issues and killing the country.

Do you want japan to make parents kill their daughters? that's what happens with one child policies.

[–] scholar@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

China ended their one child policy because it had succeeded. Parents killing their daughters was a cultural issue particularly in rural farming communities who depended on their sons for labour. We can't uncritically assume that any given implementation of a childbirth disincentivisation policy will lead to infanticide.

[–] aeronmelon@lemmy.world 37 points 8 months ago (1 children)

One does not simply walk to downtown. You MUST own a car.

[–] synae@lemmy.sdf.org 16 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Thankfully Boromir was wrong, and they do walk into Mordor. At least I don't have Shelob guarding the way when I go to the movie theater

[–] DrWeevilJammer@lemmy.ml 10 points 8 months ago (1 children)

"My name is KENNETH, ACKTUALLY, and you NEED A TICKET to see Spiderman"

[–] AFallingAnvil@lemmy.ca 2 points 8 months ago

"No admittance after the show has started sir. It helps preserve the ambiance."

[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 35 points 8 months ago

Where I live, rich urban areas have plenty of trees and frequently get more planted around. Meanwhile, poorer areas receive zero trees because "they don't have trees to receive maintenance".

[–] Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net 26 points 8 months ago (4 children)

Despite what you might think of Skynyrd, they cover this topic in a relatable way. Arcade Fire also covers it kind of. Sorry for the links but I'm a huge music nerd.

Around here, sprawl is a major issue. We have some of the most fertile soils in the world, and we pave over them without regard. It's abhorrent. I don't make the 'most fertile soils' comment lightly - this is my area of expertise, professionally. The only other places I can think of that have better soil quality than where I live are Russia and the Ukraine.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Despite what you might think of [Skynyrd]

I think they're amazing musicians and lyricists who held regressive viewpoints on certain issues which were more socially acceptable in their bygone era.

[–] Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net 3 points 8 months ago

Very much this. Well written and thoughtful comment, BTW.

[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 7 points 8 months ago

Housing developments that scour the earth bare and named after that which they destroyed. Fox Run, Oak Ridge, Forest Brook, etc...

[–] wahming@monyet.cc 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

Around here

Where's that, for those of us who aren't your neighbours? 😛

[–] Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net 7 points 8 months ago (1 children)
[–] wahming@monyet.cc 3 points 8 months ago

No wonder Ukraine and Russia have better soil quality, that's a pretty low bar.

[–] Anticorp@lemmy.world 1 points 8 months ago

This little place called Earth.

[–] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 2 points 8 months ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

Skynyrd

Arcade Fire

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.

[–] dantheclamman@lemmy.world 25 points 8 months ago

I normally don't post about my blog here, but I literally posted this today so...https://dantheclamman.blog/2024/04/24/environmentally-youve-got-to-hand-it-to-sauron/

[–] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 21 points 8 months ago (3 children)

Also describes the orcs' drink they gave to the hobbits very much like you would describe coffee

[–] Skua@kbin.social 15 points 8 months ago

Doesn't Bilbo make actual coffee for the dwarves at the start of the Hobbit?

[–] fluxion@lemmy.world 6 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Not even freshly ground... just like mass produced coffee

[–] kautau@lemmy.world 3 points 8 months ago

The best part of wakin’ up

Huh, I never interpreted it that way! Then again, I'm not a coffee drinker.

[–] Scrof@sopuli.xyz 14 points 8 months ago

Tolkien is but an average tree enjoyer.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 5 points 8 months ago

Tree is good, no tree is sad. Sounds reasonable enough!