this post was submitted on 09 Jun 2024
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No Stupid Questions

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people have been demonizing it for most of the AD years i think but it's quite pleasant really. are there any proven negative effects?

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[–] snek_boi@lemmy.ml 108 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (4 children)

Masturbation is totally normal and healthy, and you're spot on that it shouldn't be demonized or shamed. In men, it might even reduce the risk of prostate cancer.

At the same time, it's important to have a balanced and psychologically flexible relationship with masturbation and sexuality. As psychologist Steven Hayes, a leading expert on psychological flexibility, explains: getting too fixated on any one activity or coping mechanism, even a healthy one, can lead to psychological inflexibility if it is used to avoid experiencing your life fully (For a thorough explanation of how this works, feel free to check out A Liberated Mind by Steven Hayes). Psychological inflexibility here means getting stuck in rigid behavior patterns to the point that it messes with living a full and meaningful life.

So while I'm totally with you that masturbation is healthy and that bullshit social taboos against it should be rejected, it's also good to be mindful about your motivation behind doing it. Are you doing it because you're escaping pain? Or are you doing it because it aligns with your values and makes your life meaningful? If you rely on masturbation too much and don't have ways of accepting your emotions and connecting with the world, it could potentially tip into unhelpful psychological rigidity and a frustrating life. The key is to be able to experience masturbation while still staying flexible enough to show up fully for the rest of your life too.

[–] MindTraveller@lemmy.ca 11 points 5 months ago (1 children)

What if I'm masturbating because my body demands I masturbate when I look at porn, even though I'd rather just look at porn without masturbating?

[–] snek_boi@lemmy.ml 20 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Thanks for the response. What you're describing - feeling a bodily urge to masturbate when viewing porn, even if you'd prefer not to - is very common. We're kinda designed so that our bodies respond to sexual stimuli. Many people can relate to that internal tug-of-war between an impulse and a conflicting desire.

From a psychological flexibility perspective, the key is to approach those urges with mindful acceptance rather than struggle against them. Fighting with or trying to suppress an urge often just makes it grow stronger, like a beach ball you keep trying to push underwater - it keeps popping back up with greater force (1). Instead, psychological flexibility invites us to open up and make room for the urge, observing it with curiosity and letting it be fully present in our awareness.

This doesn't mean you have to act on the urge. In fact, by giving it space to exist without resistance, you gain the ability to unhook from it and consciously choose how to respond in line with your values (2). You might say to yourself "I'm having the thought that I need to masturbate right now" and feel the sensations of that urge in your body, while still maintaining the freedom to decide if acting on it is truly what you want.

Imagine for a moment that a dear friend or loved one came to you struggling with this same dilemma. How would you respond to them? Most likely with compassion, understanding, and encouragement to be kind to themselves as they navigate this very human challenge. We could all benefit from extending that same caring response to ourselves.

At the end of the day, you're the expert on your own life and what matters most to you. By practicing acceptance of your inner experiences, unhooking from unhelpful thoughts and urges, and clarifying what you truly value, you can develop psychological flexibility to pursue a rich and meaningful life - whatever that looks like for you. That means that there's no one "right" way to relate to masturbation and porn. The invitation is to approach it mindfully and make choices that align with the kind of person you want to be.

(1) You can check out the "rebound effect" or "ironic process theory." It's been studied extensively in the context of thought suppression. The seminal paper on the topic is Wegner, D. M., Schneider, D. J., Carter, S. R., & White, T. L. (1987). Paradoxical effects of thought suppression. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 53(1), 5–13. https://doi.org/10.1037/0022-3514.53.1.5

(2) This meta-analysis reviewed laboratory-based studies testing the components of the psychological flexibility model, and how psychological flexibility techniques increase behavioral flexibility. Levin, M. E., Hildebrandt, M. J., Lillis, J., & Hayes, S. C. (2012). The impact of treatment components suggested by the psychological flexibility model: A meta-analysis of laboratory-based component studies. Behavior Therapy, 43(4), 741-756. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.beth.2012.05.003

[–] TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 7 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Thank you... most of the responses in this thread are really immature, arrogant, entitled, and pretty fucking cynical.

I work with people with severe depression and also the occasional sex/porn addict. Sexuality can lead us to some healthy lifestyles and can function as a healthy coping skill but it's also one that's easy to overdo. There are folks out there who try to treat their depression by masturbating all day long. They're desperate for any hit of pleasure, and they have quite literally milked that cow dry.

This post reminds me of the Reddit marijuana communities, that rubber-banded so far beyond reasonable moderated consumption of a helpful medicine, but refused to see how maladaptive their ritual had become. No one in this thread is questioning the original premise. "But it's so good!" That's the immature, arrogant part. And the entitled part is the attitude that any criticism of my precious coping tool is a threat to my hollow happiness, and the cynicism is that the only reason to criticize it is because of a corrupt society! Jesus fucking christ this thread broke my brain, you all broke my brain, we all suck.

[–] maybeoneday@lemmy.world 3 points 5 months ago

I've ended up having sex with my marijuana and smoking my semen.. And I can't help but ask myself, where did it all go wrong?

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Psychological inflexibility here means getting stuck in rigid behavior patterns to the point that it messes with living a full and meaningful life.

Rigid behavioral patterns like having to work 40 hours a week, shop, feed yourself, clean, do laundry, go to the doctor, pay bills and so on, over and over and over again for the rest of your life?

[–] TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

Bro you can't just list basically every human ADL and say it's a "rigid behavior". That's basically like saying "Oh, you claim to like variety? Then how come you spend every day ALIVE?" thats idiotic, arrogant, cynical

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Well excuse the fuck out of me for not having enough free time to actually enjoy my life.

[–] TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 0 points 5 months ago (1 children)

you cant compartmentalize things like that. there aren't "chores" vs "fun" and everything you have to do is pain and the fun is just the chemical rushes. you gotta learn to enjoy the little things, enjoy yourself while you're doing your job or your chores, have some gratitude that you still live and breathe. you probably are gonna wanna get screened for depression

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I can't pick and choose what I do or do not enjoy doing. There's nothing engaging about cleaning or doing laundry. When I first got out on my own there was at least some challenge in figuring out the most efficient way of doing things but that's all been mastered long ago. My job mostly consists of going down a list of projects and emailing people to find out why they haven't finished things that should have been done weeks ago. Then when I leave I get to sit in traffic for half an hour. Maybe stop at one of the over crowded, understaffed grocery stores to overpay for food. Get home, work out for an hour, shower, cook food, clean up, do whatever else needs doing. There's nothing to enjoy about any of that. It's all tedious as hell. I might have an hour or two after everything else is done to unwind before bed and even then I usually have too much on my mind to really get immersed in anything.

[–] TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I get how you can feel like that is a fault of the world, but don't you see any agency in changing any of this? Or you just leave it at "Well I don't like it so that's that"

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Of the things I listed:

Job - I'm always on the look out for better options, so far nothing has come up that pays more and I'm already not making enough to do the things I want to do.

Cleaning - Already said I have gamified it to get some enjoyment out of it in the past but I don't see any more room for improvement there.

Traffic - I can leave work early to beat rush hour sometimes but that that only helps a little.

Grocery store - I've tried going to different ones but it's more or less the same issues at all of the ones I've tried. I've figured out which days are usually less busy but it still sucks.

Working out - I vary my routines to not get too boring but it's still more or less the same stuff over and over again. It was fun when I was making gains but now my physique is where I want it to be so it's just maintenance.

Cooking- can try making new stuff but that just takes longer and comes with the risk of waste if I mess it up or don't like it. Also sharing a kitchen with housemates that tend to pack all the freezer space with garbage they buy from costco.

Free time - I guess I could stay up later but then I'll feel like shit all day the next day.

I'm open to suggestions but you're acting like I don't think about this shit constantly.

[–] TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Yeah it does sound like you think about this a lot and you're really trying to make it work. I guess thinking about it isn't gonna be the solution.

It sounds like your dopamine systems are all screwed up - and make no mistake, most of ours are nowdays. When we spend our days getting flooded with quick hits of pleasure, scrolling memes here, gaming after school, masturbating whenever we want, etc., it's really hard to feel pleasure from the little things in life. But that's the point of dopamine: it's supposed to tell us when we're doing the right thing and make us feel rewarded just from having our life in order. But the pleasure of caring for your home is not going to be as intense as the rush you get from leveling up or opening loot boxes or whatever.

That's why we always see in these kinds of threads comments like "You wanna take away the ONE THING i enjoy in this miserable existence!" well shit sometimes that one thing you enjoy is making it so you can't enjoy anything else.

Then the question becomes How do I recalibrate my dopamine systems? And that's a complicated answer - if that's even the issue here! But yeah, more thinking (or words from me) probably wont do the trick.

[–] daltotron@lemmy.world -2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I mean that's definitely just a checkout aisle self-help book, though. Psychology, along with nutritional science and some other softer, more survey-based fields, has been suffering a pretty massive replication crisis, where something like 50% of papers are totally incapable of being replicated, depending on the journal and subject.

So I dunno, I'd generally be pretty skeptical of anything a book like that says about how you have to live your life or what you should be doing or how you should be doing it. Even if it's something like "mindfulness", right, generally thought to be a therapeutic practice, which we're extracting from zen buddhism or whatever, just like carl jung travels around and extracts a bunch of "archetypes" from other cultures and then supposes that they're universal when really it's all just kinda some schizo bullshit canon he's coming up with on the fly.

I uhh, I don't like the scientific paint that is painted onto psychology and psychotherapy, is I guess what I'm saying. The attempt at formalization. What is just as good for one person, to be mindful, is probably something that someone else should rather not think about at all. Maybe even as a functional adaptation, a functional delusion that they can go on believing, and still end up having a fulfilling and uplifting life for everyone around them.

[–] TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I mean that’s definitely just a checkout aisle self-help book, though.

Hayes is not a checkout aisle self-help book lol he pioneered multiple major branches of CBT. that's like calling the Rolling Stones elevator music

I’d generally be pretty skeptical of anything a book like that says about how you have to live your life or what you should be doing or how you should be doing it

I admire the skepticism but you haven't read it and clearly haven't taken time to fully understand it. he isn't making prescriptive claims. he's speaking on behavioral science. "A happens, then B tends to happen. C happens, then D tends to happen. do what you will with this info."

I don’t like the scientific paint that is painted onto psychology and psychotherapy, is I guess what I’m saying.

i understand the apprehension about psychological research but it is fundamentally a subjective science - psychology is what makes subjectivity possible, after all! and we humans clearly need treatment. if everyone listened to the ideas you planted in here, then what would we do? not try any treatments at all? not test our treatments? not seek evidence that our treatments are working and improve them? not share our findings?

the issue fundamentally is that you need to learn more about reading and interpreting scientific literature. you're presenting a pseudo-intellectual skepticism which is admittedly a healthy protective mechanism from many things online, but is not going to be a useful attitude for all kinds of growth

im sorry im being a dick but this thread has funked up my barometer for crazy and i probably misinterpreted your level of it, be well