this post was submitted on 14 May 2024
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[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

My broader point here is that if your goal is to get leftists to vote for Biden, trying to explain why you think Biden is good is counterproductive. Instead, explain how leftist change is impossible via electoralism

If someone's mindset is such that it's unnecessary to talk about what actions a politician has taken when deciding whether to vote for them, I'm comfortable with not being able to appeal to that person.

Honestly my goal isn't to "get" anyone to do anything. I am trying to communicate the reality I see in front of me. Obviously I hope that that will produce a result and a better outcome in the real world, if the reality I see seems compelling to someone else as a useful model, but I'm not into the idea of trying to move away from "this is how I see it and why" and into something else, to try to engineer a stated result in some other person. They can make their own decisions, as can you.

For leftists, generally, continuing down this descent into fascism that is happening slowly under Biden and rapidly under Trump is unnacceptable.

What are fascist things that Biden has done? How has he moved the needle towards fascism? Maybe this is where some of the disconnect between our views on him comes from.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 1 points 4 months ago (51 children)

That wasn't the point, though. It's necessary to look at the actions a politician has taken. The fact that you believe it necessary to "uhmm, akshually" someone who has expressed disapproval of Biden from the left is condescending and counterproductive.

As for the fascist and fasc-adjacent things Biden has done, there are quite a few. Enabling and funding a genocide, labeling protestors as anti-semetic, further entrenching US Imperialism, building Nationalism, and more have resulted in continued cancerous growth of fascists domestically.

In addition to overt actions, it's important to look at what causes fascism itself. Fascism is Capitalism in decline, a violent assertion of Capital. As the head of state, failing to push back against Capitalism is also failing to push back against it's decline, and thus is why I say voting for Biden is slow fascism rather than rapid fascism.

The US will inevitably continue down the train of fascism until derailed, which is accomplished via outside pressure. Voting for Biden buys time, but does not prevent fascism.

[–] daltotron@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

As for the fascist and fasc-adjacent things Biden has done, there are quite a few. Enabling and funding a genocide, labeling protestors as anti-semetic, further entrenching US Imperialism, building Nationalism, and more have resulted in continued cancerous growth of fascists domestically.

Forgot about the crime bill and like most of his pre-presidential actions, can't forget about those

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