this post was submitted on 15 Apr 2024
165 points (99.4% liked)

news

23654 readers
437 users here now

Welcome to c/news! Please read the Hexbear Code of Conduct and remember... we're all comrades here.

Rules:

-- PLEASE KEEP POST TITLES INFORMATIVE --

-- Overly editorialized titles, particularly if they link to opinion pieces, may get your post removed. --

-- All posts must include a link to their source. Screenshots are fine IF you include the link in the post body. --

-- If you are citing a twitter post as news please include not just the twitter.com in your links but also nitter.net (or another Nitter instance). There is also a Firefox extension that can redirect Twitter links to a Nitter instance: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/libredirect/ or archive them as you would any other reactionary source using e.g. https://archive.today/ . Twitter screenshots still need to be sourced or they will be removed --

-- Mass tagging comm moderators across multiple posts like a broken markov chain bot will result in a comm ban--

-- Repeated consecutive posting of reactionary sources, fake news, misleading / outdated news, false alarms over ghoul deaths, and/or shitposts will result in a comm ban.--

-- Neglecting to use content warnings or NSFW when dealing with disturbing content will be removed until in compliance. Users who are consecutively reported due to failing to use content warnings or NSFW tags when commenting on or posting disturbing content will result in the user being banned. --

-- Using April 1st as an excuse to post fake headlines, like the resurrection of Kissinger while he is still fortunately dead, will result in the poster being thrown in the gamer gulag and be sentenced to play and beat trashy mobile games like 'Raid: Shadow Legends' in order to be rehabilitated back into general society. --

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Image is of Iranian missiles flying over the Knesset, the Israeli parliament building in Jerusalem.


Please check out the HexAtlas!

The bulletins site is here!
The RSS feed is here.
Last week's thread is here.

Your Wednesday update is here!
Your Friday update is here!
Your Saturday update is here!

Israel-Palestine Conflict

If you have evidence of Israeli crimes and atrocities that you wish to preserve, there is a thread here in which to do so.

Sources on the fighting in Palestine against Israel. In general, CW for footage of battles, explosions, dead people, and so on:

UNRWA daily-ish reports on Israel's destruction and siege of Gaza and the West Bank.

English-language Palestinian Marxist-Leninist twitter account. Alt here.
English-language twitter account that collates news (and has automated posting when the person running it goes to sleep).
Arab-language twitter account with videos and images of fighting.
English-language (with some Arab retweets) Twitter account based in Lebanon. - Telegram is @IbnRiad.
English-language Palestinian Twitter account which reports on news from the Resistance Axis. - Telegram is @EyesOnSouth.
English-language Twitter account in the same group as the previous two. - Telegram here.

English-language PalestineResist telegram channel.
More telegram channels here for those interested.

Various sources that are covering the Ukraine conflict are also covering the one in Palestine, like Rybar.

Russia-Ukraine Conflict

Examples of Ukrainian Nazis and fascists
Examples of racism/euro-centrism during the Russia-Ukraine conflict

Sources:

Defense Politics Asia's youtube channel and their map. Their youtube channel has substantially diminished in quality but the map is still useful. Moon of Alabama, which tends to have interesting analysis. Avoid the comment section.
Understanding War and the Saker: reactionary sources that have occasional insights on the war.
Alexander Mercouris, who does daily videos on the conflict. While he is a reactionary and surrounds himself with likeminded people, his daily update videos are relatively brainworm-free and good if you don't want to follow Russian telegram channels to get news. He also co-hosts The Duran, which is more explicitly conservative, racist, sexist, transphobic, anti-communist, etc when guests are invited on, but is just about tolerable when it's just the two of them if you want a little more analysis.
On the ground: Patrick Lancaster, an independent and very good journalist reporting in the warzone on the separatists' side.

Unedited videos of Russian/Ukrainian press conferences and speeches.

Pro-Russian Telegram Channels:

Again, CW for anti-LGBT and racist, sexist, etc speech, as well as combat footage.

https://t.me/aleksandr_skif ~ DPR's former Defense Minister and Colonel in the DPR's forces. Russian language.
https://t.me/Slavyangrad ~ A few different pro-Russian people gather frequent content for this channel (~100 posts per day), some socialist, but all socially reactionary. If you can only tolerate using one Russian telegram channel, I would recommend this one.
https://t.me/s/levigodman ~ Does daily update posts.
https://t.me/patricklancasternewstoday ~ Patrick Lancaster's telegram channel.
https://t.me/gonzowarr ~ A big Russian commentator.
https://t.me/rybar ~ One of, if not the, biggest Russian telegram channels focussing on the war out there. Actually quite balanced, maybe even pessimistic about Russia. Produces interesting and useful maps.
https://t.me/epoddubny ~ Russian language.
https://t.me/boris_rozhin ~ Russian language.
https://t.me/mod_russia_en ~ Russian Ministry of Defense. Does daily, if rather bland updates on the number of Ukrainians killed, etc. The figures appear to be approximately accurate; if you want, reduce all numbers by 25% as a 'propaganda tax', if you don't believe them. Does not cover everything, for obvious reasons, and virtually never details Russian losses.
https://t.me/UkraineHumanRightsAbuses ~ Pro-Russian, documents abuses that Ukraine commits.

Pro-Ukraine Telegram Channels:

Almost every Western media outlet.
https://discord.gg/projectowl ~ Pro-Ukrainian OSINT Discord.
https://t.me/ice_inii ~ Alleged Ukrainian account with a rather cynical take on the entire thing.


you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] SeventyTwoTrillion@hexbear.net 58 points 8 months ago (12 children)

Welcome to fanfiction hour, courtesy of Pepe Escobar.

spoiler

Pepe, in a 1 million view tweet, has recently alleged that a "very high level intel source" from Asia, but not Russia or China, has informed him that Israel's initial plan to respond to Iran was to detonate a nuclear bomb over Iran to cause an EMP which would wipe out the electronics of the whole country. They sent an F-35 with its nuclear cargo flying towards Iran, but once it left Jordanian airspace, Russia proceeded to shoot down the F-35. Now, every country involved is maintaining silence about this, and Israel's lackluster response later on was essentially them scrambling to put something together once Plan A failed.

Scott Ritter has responded:

Israel would never take such a precipitous action. Not only would it provide public acknowledgment of Israeli nuclear weapons capability, thereby putting Israel in open violation of existing agreements between it and the U.S., it would also put Israel in violation of the 1968 Outer Space Treaty prohibiting the deployment and/or use of nuclear weapons in space and the Biden administration’s recent admonishments in this regard. Moreover, the scenario describes makes no sense in terms of the characterization of the weapons involved, both in terms of the alleged Russian-Israeli engagement, and what Israel would hope happens regarding EMP. This is, in every way shape and form nonsensical reporting.

I think if you're trying to assert that Israel wouldn't do something just because of a little minor nuisance to them like "laws", then that's a pretty weak argument. Not totally without merit, there are rational players still in the Israeli state somewhere or they'd be a few months deep into a losing war with Hezbollah by now, but a weak argument nonetheless.

A very strange and hyperreactionary Twitter user who I very occasionally check up on to see how far they've gone off the deep end in the last few months, but who is unfortunately pretty knowledgeable about military matters (story of our goddamn lives in this megathread; Twitter-popular communist military nerd when?), has given a set of stronger reasons why this didn't happen, and therefore what we would expect if Israel did indeed ever plan to attack Iran in a massive war scenario.

  1. Things have a chance of failing, especially when you're talking about the F-35. It is extremely unlikely that Israel would send a single plane to launch a single bomb for a mission which, if it were to fuck up and fail in some way, may well cause the destruction of their entire nation under a rain of missiles. If Israel were to attack Iran like this, we would see multiple planes carrying multiple nukes flying at Iran to ensure that at least one of them managed to do the task.

  2. This plane would need support. You would need an escort, including other planes like AWACS. You would also need to refuel. There was a US refueling plane flying in southern Iraq on that day, as the pro-Pepe people claim - but there's one there every day.

  3. If you were Israel, you would want to misdirect and cause chaos in Iran and the surrounding area to distract them and thus prevent them from taking countermeasures, like disconnecting vulnerable points in an EMP blast in their underground bases (which are, conveniently, at least partially shielded from EMPs). A drone attack consisting of a few drones would not be the required chaos. If anything, it would direct Iranian attention towards the sky. A terrorist attack by "ISIS" in a few Iranian cities at once would have been more effective.

  4. The US would know what Israel was doing, because Israel cannot act purely alone (it needs US refueling etc). Either it would force Israel to stand down (and thus the hypothetical nuke-laiden F-35 would never have flown at all), or the US would have decided to go along with it and help Israel by engaging Iraq and Syria and distracting Russia. This did not happen. The US also would have been able to detect a Russian plane taking off from an airbase to intercept the F-35 and would have either forced Israel to abort, or engage the Russian plane somehow.

  5. An EMP is generated by detonating a high-yield (1-10 megaton) thermonuclear bomb at high altitudes (at least 60 kilometers, but as high as 500 km). For complicated reasons, the effectiveness of EMPs depends on where you are on the planet due to variability in magnetic field strength. Magnetic field strength is higher at the poles (though there's a lot of variability; there's a less intense zone over the South Atlantic and a more intense zone over Australia despite being at about the same latitude for example). Russia and the United States are therefore, coincidentally, among the two most vulnerable countries to EMPs when just talking about magnetic field strength. Iran is somewhere in the middle of the spectrum

Because of the lack of real testing into EMPs for obvious reasons, it is unknown precisely how far up or how big the bomb would have to be to cover Iran. The EMP would also decay with distance - this means that many military sites close to the borders would be less affected if you got it a little too small, thus ensuring a massive response from Iran which would destroy Israel too. Whereas if you got it a little too big, you could easily hit many other countries (in the Middle East - the supply of much of the planet's oil!) and perhaps even Russia itself, which would possibly cause Russia to respond to Israel rapidly.

  1. Israel would probably deliver a nuclear payload with a Blue Sparrow missile. Assuming a 700 kg warhead capable of delivering 2 megatons, which is a reasonable guess as to the bomb size and yield you'd need to disable Iran assuming certain factors, it could just barely fit inside the missile. But no warhead of this magnitude with that relatively low weight has been reported outside of the now-discontinued Russian Topol-M. The most common nuke yield in the US arsenal is at about 500 kilotons, and the most powerful nuclear free-fall weapon in the US is the B83, at 1.2 megatons with a weight of over 1000 kilograms. So Israel would need to have done some pretty intense nuclear science to create a warhead that is both twice as strong and half as large as the most powerful US nuke. Not impossible, but there's no reason to believe it.

Scott himself has just responded further to Pepe with about the same arguments as to why Israel couldn't perform this attack.

[–] someone@hexbear.net 25 points 8 months ago

there's a less intense zone over the South Atlantic

The South Atlantic Anomaly is a fascinating part of Earth's geology that affects the operations of spacecraft above it. The lower magnetic field strength means that space-based computers in low Earth orbit passing through it experience more temporary processing errors than in other positions in their orbit. For example, the Hubble telescope doesn't do imaging when passing through it because the additional particle radiation can do odd things to its sensors.

[–] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 24 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I'm glad I've stopped taking Pepe Escobar seriously so I could laugh at this instead of feel second-hand embarrassment.

[–] DivineChaos100@hexbear.net 19 points 8 months ago

I mean Ritter himself isn't the smallest of clowns around these parts.

[–] Commiejones@hexbear.net 24 points 8 months ago

A very strange and hyperreactionary Twitter user who I very occasionally check up on to see how far they've gone off the deep end in the last few months

And I thought pet rocks and sea monkeys were weird.

[–] assyrian@hexbear.net 24 points 8 months ago (1 children)

that tweet was so deranged, I'm surprised you spent any time seriously analyzing it

[–] SeventyTwoTrillion@hexbear.net 16 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

I scoffed at the tweet as soon as I finished reading it, but I did realize I had totally forgotten about EMPs as a thing that countries can do as a military response and went into a small rabbithole about whether such an attack could actually work. I think the answer is basically "hypothetically yes, in practice very unlikely" for all the reasons listed above. I wasn't aware, for example, that an EMP strong enough to convert countries to the stone age (for a few years at least) would require a bomb that was that strong, I had just assumed that if you nuked space or the very high atmosphere with anything then you could manage it.

and also I think that even if Israel has secretly been running very high quality simulations of EMP blasts over Iran for decades and could do it, then Hezbollah and friends would still be a major problem and they could dismantle Israel as a functioning nation anyway, so Hezbollah could function as a second-strike. I guess being close to Israel does have its rare benefits (hard to nuke/EMP effectively without wiping yourself out too)

[–] DivineChaos100@hexbear.net 20 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I wonder how it could go unnoticed that Russia shot down a plane with a fucking nuke on it.

[–] mkultrawide@hexbear.net 20 points 8 months ago

I don't even know if it would be possible for cover up the shoot down of a fighter nowadays, between everyone having cellphones and the inevitable radiation from fissile material being blown up getting picked up on radiation sensors in the region.

[–] TraschcanOfIdeology@hexbear.net 18 points 8 months ago

The EMP thing also assumes that Iran would be too incompetent or not have the resources to shield their military facilities against these kinds of threats, which I think is rather silly. Civilian electronics and the overall grid could be affected, but Iran would be able to respond.

[–] meth_dragon@hexbear.net 18 points 8 months ago

i could see israel having a failed plan a considering the limp dick response but nukes and shot down f35s are a bit too tom clancy

[–] carpoftruth@hexbear.net 13 points 8 months ago

This story, including Pepe escobar as the person sharing it, has all the same vibes as just after the 2020 election when qanon people were talking about a secret hot war between the evil CIA and trump's good guy deep state in the DoD.

[–] CDommunist@hexbear.net 11 points 8 months ago

Like the drug dealer?

[–] D61@hexbear.net 7 points 8 months ago (1 children)

hehe... people keep forgetting just how far Israel and Iran are from each other.