this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2023
202 points (94.7% liked)
World News
32311 readers
945 users here now
News from around the world!
Rules:
-
Please only post links to actual news sources, no tabloid sites, etc
-
No NSFW content
-
No hate speech, bigotry, propaganda, etc
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Unlikely. Your political system is broken. One side wants to take it away and the other keeps saying they will prevent it, but when they get in power they do absolutely nothing.
EDIT: Just to clarify. I'm not on Republicans side, but I'm also willing to callout Democrats for their failures. I just hate money in politics and 95% of politicians are on corporate side not idealogical one.
Examples of the Democrats getting "in power they do absolutely nothing"?
Source: https://www.newsweek.com/barack-obama-blasted-not-codifying-roe-v-wade-democrat-failure-1719156
Look why don't we just point this out, which is a pretty obvious hole in all this.
Do you really think the Affordable Care Act would be the way it is if they ever had the majority needed to codify Roe?
They spent literal years getting filibustered.
Absolutely. This is the group that never put the public option on the table to begin with as a show of "good faith bipartisanship". Which netted them zero votes. We can argue whether Democrats don't know how to fight or just don't want to. But for now the result is the same. A few are finally starting to walk the walk and not just talk the talk. But they're still a minority.
The facts don't support your contention: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/debunking-the-myth-obamas_b_1929869
111th Congress (2009–2011)
Majority Party: Democrats (57 seats)
Minority Party: Republicans (41 seats)
Other Parties: 1 Independent; 1 Independent Democrat (both caucused with the Democrats)
Total Seats: 100
Note: Senator Arlen Specter was reelected in 2004 as a Republican, and became a Democrat on April 30, 2009. Senator Joseph Lieberman of Connecticut was reelected in 2006 as an independent candidate, and became an Independent Democrat. Senator Bernard Sanders of Vermont was elected in 2006 as an Independent.
Source: https://www.senate.gov/history/partydiv.htm
You spent all that time typing a reply yet you didn't even read my source...
He never had 60 present to overcome the filibuster and only passed ACA because Joe fucking Lieberman was bribed by the insurance industry to remove the public option. You should edit your posts for factual accuracy.
Oh I read it, written by Gov. Jennifer M. Granholm.
And if your party member is incapable of voting then he should have resigned a long fucking time ago. That's on them for not forcing him out. The same way Ruth Bader Ginsburg should have resigned due to her failing health instead of clinging to last vestiges of power.
I guess you are going to defend Sen. Dianne Feinstein now too, when she incapable of doing her job, but being forced to stay in her position because that's convientent for Adam Schiff to stay in power.
Moving the goalposts is a lazy form of debate. Thank you for admitting you were wrong about Obama having a supermajority and should have codified abortion rights.
I will agree with you that they should have forced Ginsburg out and Feinstein should have been voted out a year ago. But that's not what you initially claimed (multiple times, I might add).
But not Senator Byrd, right?
Again with the goalposts. Facts are facts. Admit you were wrong about Obama having a supermajority. Unless you are just being a provocateur, you don't help your case when you clearly miss the truth and deflect from admitting it.
Okay. I checked the timeline. It's shit.
Robert Byrd was relased from hospital in 2009-06-30 - https://rollcall.com/2009/06/30/byrd-released-from-hospital-2/
Al Franken's was sworn in 2009-07-07 - https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna31778598
Robert Byrd was again only hospitalized in 2009-09-22 - https://www.politico.com/story/2009/09/byrd-admitted-to-hospital-after-fall-027429
Lol. Byrd was 91 and "out of commission". He wasn't present and your timeline means nothing. I'll say it again for the tenth time, Obama did not have a supermajority to override a Republican filibuster.
It's not my timeline. It's me proving your timeline in https://www.huffpost.com/entry/debunking-the-myth-obamas_b_1929869 is just factually wrong.
Lololol. First, Franken’s timeline is as stated. Byrd was out. You somehow think that his being out of the hospital means he was present and voting? Are you an idiot?
Is not an argument.
I'm out. I was open to discussion until personal attacks.
You were never open to a discussion because you refused to admit you were wrong about the supermajority. And you’ve spent a lot of time deflecting from that fact.
Just gonna call you out for a sec.
He said Ginsburg and Fenstein, because you said Ginsburg and Feinstein. While the answer to this question could easily be a "yes", this wasn't part of the original message. You're expecting him to bring up things you yourself didn't.
It was.
You're just arguing in bad faith. We can easily just say yes but if you don't explicitly bring it up then you're just trying to find a way to debase the argument. You shouldn't expect people to answer for people you only bring up after your first argument didn't give you the results you wanted.
Your link literally discredits your own argument. Not enough people to overturn a filibuster....
59+vice president=60
EDIT: Actually I'm wrong here. Vice president only has tie breaker vote.
And you think every single one of them is going to come out to codify abortion. Even West Virginia?
That was Obama's promise in 2007.
Guess we needed to give him more votes.
Is the ACA period the only time period y'all know how to cite? If that's your only example you've got, then it's 100% true that there haven't been any other opportunities. And getting the ACA through and properly implemented was its own massive battle.
I mean they had both houses of congress and the presidency in 2009. They could have codified Roe v Wade. Obama even told Planned Parenthood it would be the first thing he’d want to do in office when he was running. Then once he was in office it changed to “not my highest legislative priority.”
I get there were political reasons for it and he was trying to pass Obama Care but it still sucks.
The facts don't support your contention: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/debunking-the-myth-obamas_b_1929869
People like Sinema and Manchin are a feature of Dem politics, not a bug. They are there to slow everything down and take the heat of unpopularity so that the party can drag its feet on all of their promises.
Biden's cabinet split the huge infrastructure bill, ensuring that the parts they wanted would pass and the stuff they promised and didn't care about would tank.
I heard someone say that the means testing of student debt relief gave the GOP extra time to sink it in some way.
The basic playbook is: vote for us or some crazy fucks will be the alternative; we talk a great game, but republicans always find a way to sabotage us when we get there.
Then you should just go ahead and vote for the Republicans if your tinfoil hat is on that tight.
I'll do one better and vote for socialists.
I love that for you. While we have a 2 party system a vote for the socialists in this context is a vote for Republicans.
And that’s how change never happens. You’re forgetting that republicans were a third party who got off the ground because people cared deeply about abolition. We just need to get people aware of how to get Medicaid for all. Also, your snide tone isn’t useful.
Dem shill
Wtf do you think they could have done? Plenty of states have had voter initiatives and legislation protecting abortion rights.
I really get sick of the "both sides" garbage.
At this point the both sides people are actively supporting the GOP. All they do is try and stop progress while simultaneously complaining that the Democrats don't get anything done. They care more about being an enlightened centrist than they do helping people and it shows.
Source: https://www.newsweek.com/barack-obama-blasted-not-codifying-roe-v-wade-democrat-failure-1719156
Yeah they had the votes and time to pass one major piece of legislation while they held 60 seats and they passed the Affordable Care Act and Patient Protection Plan.
If conservatives weren't fighting literally anything that needs to get done, it would be done. It's not a both sides issue, it never was, this is purely conservative talking points. The Democrats not having enough support and political capital to get past the onslaught of GOP bullshit is only reason to support them even more. Apathy and the need to say "both sides are bad" is exactly why we're in this position.
I'm not on either side. I'm not even American. And you are in this position because you vote the same people who make the same promises over and over and over again. Vote on someone new, who doesn't have 50 page record on breaking every single promise given. No matter the side you choose. Or just remove money from politics and suddently everyone resigns.
No. Source: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/debunking-the-myth-obamas_b_1929869
I'm worried you're right, but I'm still hopeful. My daughter deserves a better country.
Yes she does.
Democrats haven't been in power in congress except that one brief time in 2009 when we passed the biggest expansion of the health care system ever.
Imagine what we could do with 8 years of democratic power instead of just a few months.
They need more than 49.5 votes with some of them coming from Georgia and West Virginia in order to do much.
It's easier to stop things in government than to pass them. Why do the Republicans get so much credit for just stopping things, but the Dems get none?
Even when they have full power the Democrats always have someone that will play the bad guy and vote with the Republicans.
To me Republicans always stick together Democrats can't get their people to do the same.
It only took 15 attempts for McCarthy to get his speakership, first time in over a century it took more than one
That was different. That was the MAGA wing of the GOP. They are extremists and he was a moron to deal with them.
But look how all the Republicans on the Senate under McConnell vote. Also normally Congress too but the maga put a wrench in the normal GOP strategy.
Source: https://www.newsweek.com/barack-obama-blasted-not-codifying-roe-v-wade-democrat-failure-1719156
You like to be wrong a lot, yes? https://www.huffpost.com/entry/debunking-the-myth-obamas_b_1929869