this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2023
251 points (97.4% liked)
Linux
48376 readers
1928 users here now
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).
Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.
Rules
- Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.
- No misinformation
- No NSFW content
- No hate speech, bigotry, etc
Related Communities
Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
My advice is to restart with Arch (I use Arch btw). Not Manjaro, I'm talking Arch.
I think using/installing Arch as well as its barebones nature FORCES you to understand how Linux works differently than Windows with concepts like root, bootloader, terminal emulation, and disk partitioning, just to give you some examples. At the same time, Arch has excellent documentation, a great package manager in pacman, and rolling release model that greatly simplifies maintainance during daily use so you can tune it to exactly how you want it.
I believe doing it the hard way at first will make it easier for you in the long run if you really want to understand Linux, and Arch is just the right amount of difficult to make you learn Linux, whereas Gentoo would be too hard and you don't learn enough from using Ubuntu/Debian/Mint.
But yeah, if you just want to use something that works well out of the box, then Ubuntu is great, there's nothing wrong with using the more user friendly distros.
I tried that after already having about 2 years experience with Ubuntu desktop and an Ubuntu server (but still mostly a Windows user). I'm also a software developer.
And I failed to install Arch on a laptop the last time I tried it out. Ubuntu ran flawlessly, trying to go step by step through the Arch installation I hit a random error (at a step that was very straight forward and easy in the documentation) and got stuck. Messed around with it and at some point gave up.
I mean that's years ago, it probably works a lot better nowadays and especially on more modern hardware, but even so for someone new to Linux I'd never tell them to go with a do-it-yourself install. Slap Ubuntu on that bad boy, let them install a few packages, do a handful of terminal commands and they'll get much farther. Instead of giving up three hours in because a random command (that they still don't understand) is broken.
If you look at the original post, his goal is to learn and understand Linux and he is on his third attempt after already trying Ubuntu remix, which is why I made this suggestion.
Again, if he just wanted to use Linux on his computer, then there is nothing wrong with using a more user friendly distro at all. But for his particular needs he described, then Arch is a better distro for learning how Linux actually works.
But as OP said, they already failed several times. That's like telling someone who nearly drowned in the shallow end of a pool to go jump into the ocean.
See here:
For me it feels like they do want to learn, but aren't comfortable yet as a day to day user. They want to use Linux, but struggle with commands and how to use it. Having a stable and easy to use system you can use each day without trouble would probably be a better start than telling them to fiddle with Arch. Give them an easy distro and when they want to learn more they can use the crappy old laptop and try to install Arch on there (while leaving their daily driver alone).
I think I learned the most when using Ubuntu for school, 90% of it was easy and straight forward. 10% of it was hell, like back in the day getting HDMI or audio to work. But because the 90% were there I just dug in and spent a dozen hours to troubleshoot the rest.
Well, I think "drowning" could be a bit much. Don't want to make Linux sound that scary now.
I think there is a reason why "Learning Python the Hard Way" is so popular, because although it's harder, it leads to learning better fundamentals which makes things easier in the long run.
So, I think OP should still give Arch a try, maybe he (they?) will be more receptive to this method, and there's no harm in trying.
Arch is amazing for all of these reasons, and I agree that by design it'll give you a lot of insight in to what's under the hood that most other distos tuck away.
I've used it in the past and ended up moving away from it because it requires quite a bit more effort to maintain, which got tiresome.
Arch has an active and dedicated community, so obviously there's a whole lot of people out there who feel it's worth the effort. Maybe OP will too. But it's not a distro to take on lightly.
I'm a long time Linux user but I'm really lazy. I recently installed Arch to try it out again as last time I did it was maybe 2012. Personally, manually setting up the hard drive partitions on initial install is just annoying enough to be too much work (I have a lot of drives) but luckily there's an installer that does that part for you. Everything else you have to do is sensible and easy and actually ends up being less work in the long run. The wiki is also extremely informative, helpful and correct.
Arch probably can be a beginner distro just because if you have a problem it's so much easier to find out how to fix it on the internet thanks to the wiki and the forums. Something as mundane as installing nvidia drivers in Debian can be a massive ordeal and the minimum required skill level to fix it yourself if it doesn't work on the first attempt is very high.
Yea took me a while to understand that I need some drivers to install if I wanted to turn on hardware acceleration to watch videos on my computer.
I didn't stick with Linux as a daily driver until I tried Manjaro. Learned enough to be comfortable installing Arch and ran that for a while, but after installing it a few times I was looking something a little bit simpler to setup. I now prefer EndeavourOS which is basically Arch with a nice installer and a few QoL apps.