Ask Lemmy
A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions
Please don't post about US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world
Rules: (interactive)
1) Be nice and; have fun
Doxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, and toxicity are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them
2) All posts must end with a '?'
This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?
3) No spam
Please do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.
4) NSFW is okay, within reason
Just remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com.
NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].
5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions.
If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.
Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.
Partnered Communities:
Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu
view the rest of the comments
I used to dislike Taylor Swift along with all other contemporary pop stars. Maybe even a little bit more, because she had the audacity to call herself Country: Spitting in the face of personal heroes like Kristofferson, Nelson, and Cash.
Then I stopped being an edgy teenager, Swift released Shake it Off, and I had to recognize it was a fun song to dance to. In an ironic kind of way of course, but nevertheless.
And then, in 2015, Ryan Adams released his cover album of Swift's 1989, playing every single song on the album in a folksy way. I dug it. And with it, I had to appreciate that Taylor Swift is one hell of a songwriter: I loved the songs, I just don't love the sound of pop music all that much. That's personal taste, not everything I dislike is bad.
Then Ryan Adams fell from grace with metoo, so fuck him. At least it triggered Father John Misty to publish (and later remove) his legendary covers of Swift in the style of the Velvet Underground.
Fast forward to 2020, and Taylor Swift dabbles with music I can actually enjoy listening to with her album folklore. Pretty cool. I actually got my expectations up for her next album, evermore, low-key hoping that it would be musically inspired by the Battle of Evermore. Sadly I was wrong, but again, it's a matter of personal preferences.
What matters more is the fact that she's reinventing herself from album to album - she's successful in one formula, and she just ditches it and moves on to something different. And every time she does it, she seems to be even more successful than the last time. Her growth as an artist is astonishing.
Finally, she's just cool. Fuck the labels - she'll just casually re-records her entire discography in order to take back control of her songs. She's caught up in all kinds of stupid celebrity drama, but it tends to be the rest of the industry falling over like toddlers trying to drag her into shit for PR while she acts like the only adult in the room. She also scores points for casually hanging out with Billy Bragg and encouraging people to vote and shit.
Swift was hardly the downfall of country; the amount of autotuned trash from both sexes now is off the charts. I can't make myself listen to a country channel for the rare genuine song because I start to rage at the horrid garbage they play the rest of the time.
It's probably hard to pin it on anyone in particular - the Grand Ole Opry had their heads up their asses long before country music started sucking for real. I guess outlaw country defined itself by not following the rules of the Nashville scene.
I've never been to the US, so the closest thing I came to an American country channel was some cassette recordings my dad made in the 80s and that we kept listening to in the car. Obviously learning about contemporary country music was a shock for me once I started spending too much time online.
I'm fine with pop, there are plenty of pop songs I've liked, and I can recognize how since of her songs are fun, I'm curious why she receives dozens of rewards.
Your point about successful in one formula, and then ditches it and moved on to something different
Do you think that happens with every album, or is there a specific example you're thinking about?
Oh I want to add, it's definitely very cool to re-record your discography.
So I'm not exactly an expert, I just have some friends who are Swifties and I enjoy sometimes hearing people out about what they're interested in over a beer. But I'll give a shot at answering based on my limited knowledge.
I don't think Swift makes a point out of reinventing herself every time. I guess she had her country phase until Red in 2012 (We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together), and perfected pop in 2014 with 1989 and Shake it Off, Blank Space and all that. The following two albums I know nothing about, but Wikipedia lists them as electropop. And then she completely changes her sound in 2020 with folklore, suddenly being more folksy and reaching an audience of middle aged male music reviewers who had previously not shown any interest in her music. Somehow the fans of her older albums loved it as well, so her fan-base only expanded.
Evermore is kind of a continuation of folklore. I find it to be a little bit more poppy at times, but it's not a huge change of direction, and kind of builds on the same universe (low-key and lower-key). Midnights however, which is her final album to date, is again something completely different: A full blown concept album, and musically again a complete change of direction. A Swiftie friend of mine said she had to give it a couple of spins before she got into it, but that it's now one of her favourites. As a prog rock fan, that sounds about right to me for a concept album.
Personally I started listening to Midnights for the first time ever while writing this post, and I gotta say the opening tune Lavender Haze has some fun things going on in it. The music is interesting, the songwriting is original, and she's a talented performer with a likeable persona. I'm not very surprised she receives her awards.
#taylorswift
Okay, that's pretty interesting. I don't believe you that you are not a swifty, not even at all, but I really appreciate your input because I think it touched on a lot of important things.
I also love just listening to people explain their passion to me over a beer, and I've had a couple while this thread has been building, and I'm having a great time trying to understand this phenomenon.
I also want to say that I keep watching or listening to every song that someone has mentioned in the comments so that I can see from their perspective what they're talking about, and I'm more cinema oriented than music oriented, and she is incredibly talented at the"hidden" glances and whoever her producers and editors are on every music video I've seen are just killing it making her appear charming, which cannot be a small part of her appeal.
Okay, I'm going to go listen to this folklore album you're talking about now and trying to figure out what's going on there also.
Appreciated, thanks. So this one's called evermore no wait what f*** Wait folklores the
How do you think she compares to Britney Spears, Madonna, or Beyonce? Like, Taylor Swift has become a pop star. You don't have to love her music to see she has wide appeal. I don't really like Madonna but you listen to a song and you are like "yeah I can see why people have danced to this for thirty years"
I feel like with Madonna or beyoncé, either of them are more unique and have more staying power.
I'm not a big pop head, but I can sing a bunch of their singles and I can't think of a Taylor Swift song except I think the never going to get back together one?
Maybe I'm just perceiving Taylor Swift is more successful and wealthy than all of these other pop stars?
I should probably go look at the numbers to see if the perception she projects is as insanely successful as it seems to me
Why would you think anyone has more staying power than Taylor Swift? At 34 years old she has been in the music industry for 19 years and she's only growing in popularity. She topped the Country charts for 24 weeks with her debut album at age 17.
Sure, we won't be able to compare her to Madonna for another 30 years or so, but I don't exactly see a reason to question her staying power.
Because many other artists created a movement that it seems like Taylor Swift waded into and perpetuated without contributing something significantly new.
I'm interested in your " we won't be able to compare her to Madonna for another 30 years"， are you agreeing that Swift doesn't have the sort of staying power that Madonna or other pop stars have achieved?
If so, why has she received so many more awards than anybody else? So many.
I might not understand what you mean by this comment:
"Sure, we won't be able to compare her to Madonna for another 30 years or so, but I don't exactly see a reason to question her staying power."
I just think it's easy to assess Madonna's staying power because she's still around and somewhat relevant, even though she had her biggest hit 40 years ago. It's not easy to say right now who will be remembered and who will be forgotten in 30 years.
I hear people say that all the time, but Madonna was a pretty radical figure, and so was Michael Jackson and the Beatles, who people keep bringing up?
They were all pioneers of a very clear movement or another, whereas Taylor Swift is just a pop star who sings about relationships and breakups in the middle of a line of pop stars who sing about relationships and breakups?
Well, but I don't fully understand the amount of award she's received because she sings well, when there are other artists who sing as well.
I do think that all of your comments are helping bring me closer to a complete picture though, or at least as complete a picture as we can get so early into her career.
Thanks
Okay, yeah so I think it's the awards that I don't really understand, since she doesn't seem that unique to me compared to Ellis, Madonna or beyoncé, but she has the most awards out of them and far more awards than many other pop"stars", like a pretty crazy amount more.
Swift has 81 awards
Beyonce has 96, 31 of which are BET awards, which I do think is significant in this specific list since obviously Taylor Swift isn't competing in that category.
But then let's get to other pop stars.
Lady Gaga has 35 awards? The f*** like I can sing tons of her songs.
Adele has 40? Adele. Adele? Taylor Swift has twice as many awards as Adele?
Rihanna has 49 including her 19 BET awards
Billy eyelash like I don't know whatever, after that it's all like a dozen awards or a couple dozen each.
Taylor has 81 awards, even without any BET awards?
How does Taylor Swift have twice as many awards as Lady Gaga or other similarly huge artists?
Because they're not similarly huge.
Taylor Swift is dating Travis Kelce, and the fact that she's going to be watching (not performing) the Super Bowl is going to add a huge number of eyeballs. To the biggest event in the country.
Lady Gaga has also put out five studio albums, Taylor Swift ten.
I think that furthers my point if a casual listener remembers several Lady Gaga songs but very few(one) of an artist who has twice as many albums?
Or a top artist having ~twice as many albums explains having ~twice as my awards as some other top artist.
Madonna has 14 albums, Taylor Swift has 10 albums, but Swift has received almost twice as many awards in her career so far.