74
Low general election turnout likely with ‘dull as dishwater’ Sunak and Starmer
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 18 Jan 2024
74 points (97.4% liked)
UK Politics
3107 readers
341 users here now
General Discussion for politics in the UK.
Please don't post to both !uk_politics@feddit.uk and !unitedkingdom@feddit.uk .
Pick the most appropriate, and put it there.
Posts should be related to UK-centric politics, and should be either a link to a reputable news source for news, or a text post on this community.
Opinion pieces are also allowed, provided they are not misleading/misrepresented/drivel, and have proper sources.
If you think "reputable news source" needs some definition, by all means start a meta thread. (These things should be publicly discussed)
Posts should be manually submitted, not by bot. Link titles should not be editorialised.
Disappointing comments will generally be left to fester in ratio, outright horrible comments will be removed.
Message the mods if you feel something really should be removed, or if a user seems to have a pattern of awful comments.
!ukpolitics@lemm.ee appears to have vanished! We can still see cached content from this link, but goodbye I guess! :'(
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
@DessertStorms @GreyShuck @Fudoshin @Zagorath
You're right, but without a full-scale revolution how do we get there?
By accepting that a revolution is necessary. There is no fixing ("reforming") capitalism. Or a monarchy. Or a parliament that consists of an entire house of unelected "gentry". The system was never meant to serve us and it never will.
Capitalism has been reformed, repeatedly. There are different forms of it, it evolves all the time. That was a key part of Marx's philosophical stance, that capitalism was an ever-changing, revolutionary force, both destructive and creative; that was what he admired about it, in fact! Clement Attlee and other world leaders reformed capitalism with the Bretton Woods agreement and the many reforms we made post-war within countries. I think it's very doubtful that a post-war revolution in the UK would've turned out well, given how the other post-war revolutions shaped up. Even Thatcher 'reformed capitalism' in this country (very much for the worse, obviously!).
As to your specific points... we have reformed all those things, repeatedly. It's really quite odd to point to a country that has a constitutional monarchy, which used to be an absolute monarchy, and insist there's no reforming that monarchy. It's the way it is because we reformed it. In fact, we last reformed it in 2013. And the Lords was last reformed in 2015. The Commons was also reformed, for the better, in 2015 to allow recall of MPs.
Now, if you agree that these things are better than the alternative, that is the same thing as agreeing with reform. I think you and I probably agreee that the reforms didn't go far enough, or even that it would be better to do away with some of these things altogether, but it's not true to say that they can't be reformed; abolishing the monarchy would be a reform, albeit a major one. Barbados did it very recently, again without a revolution. Even changing the Lords to an elected chamber or getting rid of the last Hereditary Peers would be reforms, and I imagine we'd both welcome them, up to a point!
@DessertStorms @GreyShuck @Fudoshin @Zagorath
Yep
The thing to remember is that as scary and overwhelming as a revolution can seem, it isn't just on the front lines, it requires a lot more than just a violent uprising, it requires a base to fall back on as well as significantly more people working behind the scenes than are on the front lines.
Building up communities that care about and for each other, spreading information and solidarity, building dual powers (communal services to replace the failing/for profit ones we're made to rely on, from food banks to money banks to childcare to healthcare), spreading propaganda and so on, all are vital and need to be happening before any hypothetical storming of any institution could even happen.
We can do it.