this post was submitted on 02 Dec 2023
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It's still an anti-Semitic dogwhistle and I'm not comfortable with it
Since when is "rabid dog" an antisemitic dogwhistle? Or is any criticism of Israel written with the use of literary devices to be labelled as an antisemitic dogwhistle?
Since anti-semites called Jews dogs in their anti-semitic propaganda dating back over a century.
No, use of literary devices to criticize Israel is not an anti-semitic dogwhistle. Specifically referring to them as dogs is.
Everyone calls everyone else dogs, it's literally the most common insult in the world.
With a very well documented history in anti-Semitic propaganda. We can criticize Israel without using phrases that attract white supremacists to our spaces
What? Dog in reference to “Jewish” people has always been towards the gentiles, it even shows up in the Bible.
Dog is a basic insult and not a slur or antisemitic. History and linguistics does not agree with you.
Here’s Cambridge even saying the same.
Hey thanks for this. You are correct that I was confused. I had falsely believed that calling Jews "dogs" was a long anti-Semitic tradition. I did more research and discovered that actually historically they were called rats and lice and very few examples exist of anti-semitics tropes comparing Jews and dogs.
The most salient example of that was an American trend to hang a sign on your shop that said "No Jews or dogs allowed", but that doesn't meet the standard of what I had believed.
All good mate. No worries.
Could you provide sources for it being specifically used as antisemitic dogwistle, especially that you claim it's very well documented? Calling any ethnoreligious group "dogs" is of course not very nice (good that nobody here did it), but i relly never heard of thar particlar insult being specifically antisemitic unlike let's say "k_kes" or "l_ce" or many others which do have specific context.
I dug for sources and discovered I was wrong. I had falsely believed that calling Jews "dogs" was a long anti-Semitic tradition. I did more research and discovered that actually historically they were called rats and lice and very few examples exist of anti-semitics tropes comparing Jews and dogs, as you said.
The most salient example of that was an American trend to hang a sign on your shop that said "No Jews or dogs allowed", but that doesn't meet the standard of what I had believed.
Yeah, and respect for you for admitting it. For comparison, nazis also called Poles "pigs" with high consistence, but no one ever thought "pig" is antipolish slur since it's also one of those often used by everyone, including Poles for Germans.
Now when i think of it Polish slurs for Germans are pretty weak considering the circumstances, we have "szkop" (castrated ram, but also from the specific nazi helmet shape looking like pot or from Czech word for "highlander", literally "coming from up there"), "Helmut" (from the popular name), "Szwab" (from land of Swabia), even the worst case when we officially called the cockroach "Prusak" is also borrowed contextually from Czech language.
Yeah, the antisemitic comparisons I've seen have typically been in the "vermin" category. Implying that Jews need to exterminated. I guess dogs wouldn't fit the rhetoric well because people are generally sympathetic to dogs...
I know the dog comparison is used pejoratively in a couple of other languages, but the connection there seems to be to dogs barking - basically calling someone a nuisance.
Jews aren't being called "dogs". The state of Israel is being called a rabid dog, and rightfully.
Equating Israel with jewish people is one of the main tools that the PR teams of Israel and the IDF use to protect themselves from criticism of their genocidal expansion project, and you have fallen right into the trap.
I'm not falling into a trap, I am asking a member of my community to not use a dogwhistle that attracts white supremacists
Yes, we don't want to attract white supremacists that may think they are welcome in a place decorated to the brim with hammers and sickles and with a name that uses a suffix most known for being used to name the city of Stalingrad. That is definitely a concern for us.
I don’t know, we might attract the blind white supremacists….
What a bizarre statement that using the insult dogs will somehow attract Nazis to a communist site lmao
"Careful, you may attract nazis to this site by using that word!"
Meanwhile, the site during its most calm day.
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
Thanks for your concern, dear bot. Unfortunately, yewtu.be 's ability to link time-stamped videos is ass, so I had to use regular youtube this one time.
timestamps actually do work for yewtu.be, but the reply bot removed the
t=370Please dont clap. Loud noises scare me.
Calling someone a "dog" isn't a dogwhistle, I think you may be confused.
Anti-semitic animal based dogwhistles are usually some form of vermin; rats, cockroaches etc. Things that are usually seen as in need of extermination.
Hey thanks for this. You are correct that I was confused. I had falsely believed that calling Jews "dogs" was a long anti-Semitic tradition. I did more research and discovered that actually historically they were called rats and lice and very few examples exist of anti-semitics tropes comparing Jews and dogs.
The most salient example of that was an American trend to hang a sign on your shop that said "No Jews or dogs allowed", but that doesn't meet the standard of what I had believed.
They said the country of Isreal, not Jewish people. This only makes sense if you automatically equate the two. I understand the discomfort of proximity there, but you're mischaracterizing what the other person said.
I am not saying the person is anti-Semitic, I'm saying it's a dog whistle and I am criticizing their use of it. There is no mischaracterization going on here.
My "There is no micharacterization going on here" shirt is raising a lot of questions etc etc
It turns out I was expressing a false belief.
I had falsely believed that calling Jews "dogs" was a long anti-Semitic tradition. I did more research and discovered that actually historically they were called rats and lice and very few examples exist of anti-semitics tropes comparing Jews and dogs.
The most salient example of that was an American trend to hang a sign on your shop that said "No Jews or dogs allowed", but that doesn't meet the standard of what I had believed.
Could you share examples? I am familiar with Arabs being compared with jackals, but not Jews with dogs.
Hey thanks for this. I had falsely believed that calling Jews "dogs" was a long anti-Semitic tradition. I did more research and discovered that actually historically they were called rats and lice and very few examples exist of anti-semitics tropes comparing Jews and dogs.
The most salient example of that was an American trend to hang a sign on your shop that said "No Jews or dogs allowed", but that doesn't meet the standard of what I had believed.
We all have misconceptions now and then <3
Israel the state does not represent Judaism nor ethnic Jews (just ask what happened to the Ethiopian Jews), it represent Zionism a movement fomented and supported by the Western colonial super powers before and after the World Wars as a means of creating a nationalistic foothold into the Middle East and thereby create monopolies of resources needed for the imperial cores at the time (and as a geopolitical soft/hard power for now). Saying someone wishes Israel as a state to no longer exist is not anti-semetic, it's like saying someone that wishes for the dismantling of the US is wishing for genocide or something similarly overreaching and ignorant of materialistic context.
I am aware and agree.
I agree.
What I believed was that the use of "dog" was an anti-semitic dogwhistle with historical use as a call to oppression and genocide of Jews.
Calling for the dismantling of Israel but using an anti-semitic dogwhistle with a history of calling for genocide blurs the line between legitimate criticism of Zionism and calling for anti-semitic genocide.
As it turns out, I had falsely believed that calling Jews “dogs” was a long anti-Semitic tradition. I did more research and discovered that actually historically they were called rats and lice and very few examples exist of anti-semitics tropes comparing Jews and dogs.
The most salient example of that was an American trend to hang a sign on your shop that said “No Jews or dogs allowed”, but that doesn’t meet the standard of what I had believed.
Had the commenter said “Israel is a plague of rats that needs to be exterminated”, I believe I would have been justified in calling it out as using a dogwhistle. As it stands, however, I was wrong.
clown
Israel is an illegitimate, genocidal state. Zionists want to spread the antisemitic lie that all Jewish people support their evil, and you're helping them do that.
Fuck you for implying that I support genocide because of my blood.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Potentially inadvertently, due to a false belief. I had falsely believed that calling Jews “dogs” was a long anti-Semitic tradition. I did more research and discovered that actually historically they were called rats and lice and very few examples exist of anti-semitics tropes comparing Jews and dogs.
The most salient example of that was an American trend to hang a sign on your shop that said “No Jews or dogs allowed”, but that doesn’t meet the standard of what I had believed.
Had you said "Israel is a plague of rats that needs to be exterminated", I believe I would have been justified in calling you out for using a dogwhistle. As it stands, however, I was wrong.
I don't know what your blood is, so rest assured I implied nothing due to it.
Additionally, I had no intention of implying you supported genocide. My intention was to accuse you of using dangerous language to express your perfectly valid point. Again, I was wrong about my beliefs of the history of those words.
I apologize.
Oh youre not comfortable? I had forgotten that we were all here to cater to you.
I don't expect anyone to cater me. I expect to be able to express my beliefs and lived experience.
In this case, it turns out my discomfort was based on a false belief. I had falsely believed that calling Jews “dogs” was a long anti-Semitic tradition. I did more research and discovered that actually historically they were called rats and lice and very few examples exist of anti-semitics tropes comparing Jews and dogs.
The most salient example of that was an American trend to hang a sign on your shop that said “No Jews or dogs allowed”, but that doesn’t meet the standard of what I had believed.
Speaking of, if you wanted a primarry source of Nazi antisemetism then watch The Eternal Jew. It is a Nazi propoganda movie that a lot of colleges make students watch as an excersise to show the climate of antisemetism. That one uses the rat insult a lot, and has some really traumatizing photage of a dead guy in a ghetto covered in rats as people walk past him.
Watching that movie was very rough for me but I felt like I left with a better understanding of what living in Nazi Germany was like. I can't imagine living in a world where something so brutal is just playing in movie theaters.