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Do you think any club can overtake Real Madrid's overhaul of record Champions League titles in our lifetimes or will they retain that record? (50-60 years) (alien.top)

submitted 11 months ago by ToastedCupboard@alien.top to c/talk@soccer.forum

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Real Madrid currently have won 14 CL titles, do you think in the next 50-60 years, any club could have overtaken them in the record or they'd continue to reign?

Their team is currently in transition, but with assembly of young stars like Vini, Rodrygo, Bellingham, Endrick, Camavinga, Tchouameni, Valverde, Militao, Guler and potentially Davies + Mbappe in 2024 may get them more CL wins in this decade alone!

Do you think any team can overtake them in most CLs won by our lifetime or is the gap too big to overcome?

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[–] broke_the_controller@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I may be biased as a Cádiz fan but you're just unfair here. Relatively to who? La Liga has been the best league from 2009 to 2018 probably. 2nd since then according to UEFA. So it's a "relatively weak league" only compared to EPL.

That's true, I was being unfair. The Spanish league is the second most competitive league amongst the top leagues.

This topic is about Real Madrid's European rivals chances to catch them at UCL tally. Among their biggest traditional rivals figure AC Milan, Liverpool, Bayern or Ajax. Recent rivals including Juventus, Chelsea, City or PSG too.

Agreed, although Ajax is no longer part of the conversation and you left Man United and possibly Inter from the list.

I'd say good management comes first. Some of these clubs have spent nearly as much, yet have not succeeded even a fraction. When Real spends, despite some notable exceptions to the rule (Hazard), they do it RIGHT.

I'd say the way the league is set up allows for Real Madrid to have success even with bad management. It's easy to do it right when they buy the best players as per the galactic policy, however the status of Real Madrid is what makes that kind of policy sustainable in the first place.

We're talking about current state of things though.

We don't know who will be top of the EPL, or the Italian League in 15 years time. We do know that Barcelona or Real Madrid will be top of the Spanish league and that Bayern will be top of the German league. Some other leagues have cycles and that is very relevant when discussing UCL wins.

I don't see how is that the case when you were attacking La Liga's "duopoly" because of lack of competition even though, by definition, it's a more contested scenario.

It's about having the right amount of competition. Athletes in most sports can only maintain their peak for a short time. The Spanish League has the perfect amount of competition (one, sometimes two teams) to remain sharp enough to play at the highest standard but to enable their players to peak for the important matches.

Teams in monolopy leagues can also enable their players to peak for the important matches, but the overall lack of competition in their league affects their sharpness (the pressure to win each match is lower).

But here again, works when compared to EPL.

Yes I was comparing to the EPL and not taking into account leagues in other teams. Although in fairness, part of the reason for that is because I believe that the EPL teams currently have the best chance of winning the UCL outside of the Spanish teams.

[–] Jlib27@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

We don't know who will be top of the EPL, or the Italian League in 15 years time. We do know that Barcelona or Real Madrid will be top of the Spanish league and that Bayern will be top of the German league

I think that may have to do more with Real, Barca and Bayern both institutional pull (as the hegemons they are) and consistency. Barca been failing a bit lately but they're not going to turn into another AC Milan overnight. The reason for Serie A being more uncertain now is because Juve dropping the level, not the rest catching up. On the contrary City clearly raising the bar for EPL (both Liverpool and Arsenal would have been champions with their points given any other past season) and translating into European performances too, where Italians successors to AC Milan and Juve have just been poor. Uncertainty does not necessarily mean overall competitiveness. That's why I think this argument here is misleading. Bayern, Real and Barsa also appear among anyone's list on the UCL contenders for the next 15 years. Heck I'd even pick them in my top 5 along with probably City and maybe Liverpool. That shows not only domestic consistency but European's, which means clubs' consistency as a whole. It's not the league's fault at all.

Agreed, although Ajax is no longer part of the conversation and you left Man United and possibly Inter from the list.

Yeah, well I even left Barca because we were talking about possible La Liga advantages and I chose Real being the clear leaders in that sense. But Barca's 5 UCL makes them closer than anyone imo than Bayern or Liverpool. They've been the most succesful side this century so far apart from Real themselves.

I just wanted to put some perspective there. La Liga is not a walk in the park, nor a walk in the park as you stated helps you precisely. See PSG, Benfica, Ajax nowadays

[–] broke_the_controller@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Bayern, Real and Barsa also appear among anyone's list on the UCL contenders for the next 15 years. Heck I'd even pick them in my top 5 along with probably City and maybe Liverpool. That shows not only domestic consistency but European's, which means clubs' consistency as a whole. It's not the league's fault at all.

My argument is that their domestic consistency assists their European consistency. If Man City and Liverpool dominate the EPL for the next 20 years, they will be able to have consistency in Europe too. At the moment English teams do well in the ECL by virtue of being in the most competitive league. There have been four different English teams that have won the ECL in approx the last 20 years.

I just wanted to put some perspective there. La Liga is not a walk in the park, nor a walk in the park as you stated helps you precisely. See PSG, Benfica, Ajax nowadays

I did understate the quality of the Spanish league in relation to Europe and I shouldn't have done that, although I still stand by my general points.

I still stand by my comments regarding clubs that have monopolies over their leagues, but I do accept that without big money being a monopoly doesn't help a club in Europe (as per Ajax and Benfica), but also that big money alone doesn't guarantee success (as per PSG. Although it would be a surprise if don't they eventually win a UCL).