this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2023
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That the massacres happened in side streets, largely military vs. local non-student supporters, doesn't mean that the students weren't threatened with "move now or there's going to be blood", or that those massacres would not be connected to what went down on the square, even if not directly on it. As such your semantic quibbles are meaningless. After the hardliners in the CCP won out when it comes to how to handle the protest the whole party turned away from Deng's reforms for what about ten years or so, hardliners apparently fearing that if they reformed anything, people would want even more reforms, as evidenced by the Tiananmen protests.
The whole thing is just perfect proof how stuffy, crusty, and calcified the CCP is in general, and how out of touch with what people actually want.
Given the reports from Western journalists, this is closest to the truth (though we don't know if there was an actual threat or if the gunshots around the area were enough threat on its own). China basically treats 6/4 like the Israeli hospital bombing "it wasn't us, but if it was then we didn't actually cause it, and if we did then people didn't actually die, and if people died it was only a few people."
This is, of course, in the context of growing corruption in government and increasing influence of American intelligence in the Chinese mainland. We know that some of the pro-democracy activists were funded and supported by American interests and that, at least according to American propaganda, that American psyops divisions were operating in China to orchestrate and escalate the event. 6/4 is a failed coup. American interests wanted to see further Chinese liberalization and tried to apply the same playbook that they had applied before in South America and the Middle East (and later in Ukraine, Pakistan) to China.
Further economic liberalization was not in the best interests of the people. While Deng's economic reforms had helped to grow China's economy in the globalizing economy at the end of the Cold War, it also created a new bourgeois and petite-bourgeois class that China is still grappling with today.
Barsoap, typing bullshit from somewhere in West, pretending to know more about China and Chinese natives, as he eats his 3rd Popeye's burger... that is a LOT of projection, since you yourself do not know shit about what you want for your country.
Let us see what can be done to undo your brainwashing about Tiananmen.
https://web.archive.org/web/20200422091229/https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1135444450103177216.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeFzeNAHEhU
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8057762.stm
https://www.unz.com/article/tiananmen-square-1989-revisited/
If you still have typical white supremacist opinion about CPC after this, tough luck.
Pin @trash80@lemmy.dbzer0.com
Is there something in the facts assessment part of my post that you disagree with? I certainly didn't see you addressing any of it, all you did was quote my editorial opinion and call it bullshit.
Gaaaaah. "Racism is when criticism of the party". It's getting boring.Talk to a Chinese person who's not a party member FFS. How do you even fucking know I'm not Chinese, please tell me.
There are barely any facts in your word soup. I see more lies than facts, similar to what everyone parrots. I addressed it with factual breakdown of dishonest manipulation by Western media during the incident.
Also, how can I talk to one of the 2-3% hanjians, when CPC and its wings have over 300M members, and over 95% of citizens support CPC? Are you saying that you have full knowledge of Tiananmen incident, while having practically none?
How do I know you are not Chinese? Your history, especially with all the German posting and "tankie" anti-communist hatred. Took about 90ish seconds.
I'm trying to figure out what difference it even makes who was killed and where. It's not like the Tank Man footage was faked. And everyone clearly accepts that the Chinese government massacred its own people to stop an uprising.
Man, I am reminded of how much I hate humanity. Governments like theirs is the default everywhere.
It makes a difference when there are people actively trying to deny anyone died, period.
No one is doing that though, at least not here in the thread. Unless a new tankie popped in somewhere and I didn't see.
What kind of massacre exactly happened? It is clear you did not read any of what I shared, and I will not point out why, because your opinions are going to default to an "anti-tankie" stance everytime, which just sounds to me like a thinly veiled pro-CIA stance of how things happened in Tiananmen.
I gave all the material, and this discussion ends here. I am not interested in talking to ignoramuses that will go to lengths to not listen to others, and justify their half knowledge positions on historical matters by hook or crook.
The army gunned down mostly workers, Peking locals, who tried to stop them from advancing to the square by blockading the streets. More or less the same people who had previously handed out noodles to the troops to have an opportunity to tell them that those are Dengist students wanting some more reform, their sons and daughters, not violent reactionaries, to make sure that what the party hardliners told the army wasn't the only thing the soldiers knew. Which was a good thing because if the soldiers hadn't known they probably would not have reacted with as much restraint -- but they still followed orders and advanced to the square, leaving corpses in their wake.
The official party line is still, more or less, "If we hadn't cracked down there would have been murder and rampage" -- nope. The violence happened because significant parts of the party wanted to backstab Deng's reforms and definitely didn't want to set precedent that some students could just show up and protest and get party members to talk to them and negotiate -- which very much happened on the part of the reformist faction.
But I wouldn't be surprised that it's kinda inconceivable in the first place for a tankie that the Chinese party had, or has, factions. Their performance has been rather spotty when it comes to centralism, but it was certainly increased after Tiananmen, and also after the collapse of the USSR. Mostly though it's politics as usual.
How, exactly, is any of this "pro-CIA"? Are you just throwing out random accusations? And yes I'm an Anarchist. I always was, and always will be, anti-tankie. Deal with it. But I also know just a tad bit more about Tiananmen than your ordinary westerner or, for that matter, your ordinary tankie.
Thanks for telling me about that red flag. Anarchists are always petite bourgeoisie, and they do not read, both of which are true about you, since you did not read what I sent.
I know about factions to the point Mao Tse-tung was a member of Kuomintang, before the CPC got formed.
Black flag. You're the red flag. Get your vexillology straight.
I bet you even support Ukraine and Israel, right? That would be consistent with the ideology of anarchism, also known as the anti reading ideology. Colours do not determine morals.
I oppose fascism of any kind. Kahanites, Hamas, Putin, doesn't matter, same shit with a different coat of paint.
Hahahahhaha, that's good, atleast you are consistently petite bourgeois for Western imperial empire. Atleast you have one redeemable personality trait. Now if you did more reading about history than internet vexillology, that would make you a better person with morals.
Man hold that fucking L and shut up
L + ratio + gg + ez + cringe + cap + free + dog water + u mad bro + ur mom + who + asked + get clapped + deez nuts + got eem + *ip address*
Also, who asked you?
. ✦ * . . ✦ ☄️ . . ﾟ . . ✦ , . ☀️ * . . . ✦ , * , . . ˚ , . . * ✦ . . . 🌕 . 🚀 ˚ ﾟ . . 🌎 , * . . ✦ ˚ * . . . ✦ , 🛸 . . ˚ , . . . ✦ * . . ✦ ☄️ . . ﾟ . Traveled the entire galaxy trying to find out who asked for your opinion
You are worthless to talk to, if this is the level of historical understanding you possess on matters. This is how a 5 year old child thinks. The whole thing was fueled by CIA, in the beginning as media manipulation, and during the incident by guaranteeing "democracy protestor students" vacation trips and scholarships in West.
I cannot wish you a nice day because your day cannot be nice if you cannot acknowledge truth. It will be a delusional day.
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