First off, I understand that this isn't our top priority right now, but I am scared that this can will be kicked far too down the road. I also don't want to cause a storm of drama here, nor a split. No hard feelings here to Emperor, Tom or Albatross.
Preface
When we came up with the idea for our next Instance to replace feddit.uk, we settled on a name and bought a domain for it. That domain was quackhouse.uk . We decided it was a fun-loving name and carried numerous benefits: • .UK TLD. Which was very important. • Not tied to Reddit. • Easy to say and memorable • Not tied to Lemmy. • Not tied to the Fediverse.
We were quite excited for Quackhouse, and to have such a last minute development for Quackhouse was disappointing.
Why Quackhouse?
Why did we decide the last two weren't a good idea? Well, to start, people who are interested in Lemmy and the Federation aspect would go for a lemmy instance anyway regardless of the name. I believe we aren't that stupid as to say "oh, it has lemmy/federated in it, it must be good!". HOWEVER just say you are trying to persuade your mate down the pub to join. He likes the idea of a forum for British-type subjects with no advertisements, tracking, and is voluntary donation-funded. However he isn't tech savvy. It would still be perfectly reasonable to tell him "Hey! There's a really nice community for discussing UK Related subjects! It's called Quackhouse.uk! (Mention some forums etc), Want to join?" Therefore for all he knows is that he's joined up to a site, there is content and discussion, he's happy. He doesn't know yet that there are users from other websites interacting with him, but he knows how to use it and he's happy. He'll probably figure out about it eventually but it won't be off-putting.
This approach wouldn't harm the "power-user" tech enthusiast, but it would be inviting to both and benefit growth.
Lemmy's growth problem
People were saying during Reddit's downfall to "join Lemmy" but I must be honest, even I resisted at first. The whole step of choosing an instance was REALLY off-putting. So I think an alternative approach would be to tell people about the instance instead of the fediverse in some cases.
The Feddit.UK problem
Has anyone here tried telling anyone who wasn't in the know about Feddit.uk? If you don't believe me, tell someone. Your response will most likely be: "Is that a Reddit knockoff?" Everytime I have told someone about this place, I have gotten a weird look and something to the tune of this response. Reddit isn't really the most heavily regarded site in the eyes of some, so who would want to make a Knock-off Reddit
I am not Tom and I mean no harm at all to him, but I reckon he kind of just set this up in haste as a pet project (which is perfectly fine, I have had similar experiences)
The fact of the matter is, this is a Reddit knockoff. You cannot deny it. And the main reason you cannot deny it is because it's literally in the name. However we can claim that the upvote/downvote layout is just a bog-standard forum layout (quite a few sites like Stack Overflow use it now anyway)
And I think this community is better than being named after a Reddit knockoff.
Feddit.UK's doomed future.
Feddit.UK has two inevitable futures.
-
- The Fediverse loses hype along with lemmy and everyone who wants to join has joined. We fade into obscurity.
-
- We keep growing, and then Reddit will eventually notice and will shut us down because we literally are infringing their copyright. We have no basis or ground to defend that.
My proposal to you:
We change domains, preferably to Quackhouse.uk. We even had a logo and a mascot designed 🦆. We were on the verge of launching it as well, domain bought, server bought.
My proposed method.
I don't think we should see this as making a new community per say, but making an extension of an already existing house and moving our good stuff over to the new part of the building. Or even better yet; just a name change
We do this in phases:
1: The hatching: Once we have everything soon enough settled, we make Quackhouse.UK as it was planned. Enable sign ups.
2: The Flock Migration: We migrate all of our main staple-UK communities over to Quackhouse. Eventually culminating in them being closed here through turning off posting.
- Shut down Feddit.UK sign-ups. Keep the instance itself running forever unless Reddit get angry. People can keep their feddit accounts, just keep it updated for legacy's sake. Put no pressure on Feddit users to migrate their accounts, but maybe offer the option.
Why not make Quackhouse a separate Instance and keep Feddit.UK unlocked? Right now, Feddit.UK is the Go-To place for British Discourse on Lemmy. We need the whole community behind this and unity. If we keep Feddit.UK up, then it will likely choke out Quackhouse's communities as there would be no reason to switch. Quackhouse was always planned to be a new home for Feddit.UK users. However, now Tom has kind of come in last minute and... Well.. our plans are a bit screwed.
Feddit.de is fine, though?
For now it is, I feel it will face a similar fate if it grows. Reddit is not going to like this violation one way or another.
All country specific instances uses feddit
While that holds a bit of water, there's no reason why we have to conform to that.
Opinion
I think it's more worthwhile inconveniencing people to resub to specific communties rather than letting them die in the inevitable downfall.
Summary
Feddit.uk is a problemed name and it needs to be changed. I propose we push on with changing it promptly, but when the time is right. It should be done in a way so that people don't lose their existing feddit.uk accounts.
That's why I'm posting it here to try and drum up support
Nods. Id avoid the inevitable demise stuff. As it is too inciteing, While simply not realistic. Lets face it. Even if the name had issues. Websites can and have moved names. Such things are not that complex. They just need a dedicated community.
I personally would start by asking for a vote on the quackhouse name. As you say some folks put work into it. But as (for good reason at the time) the name was kept secret whiler people worked on the plan. It is hard to say the community supports it.
Posting a simple thread about how and why the name was purchased. Asking if people would like tom et al to move the nameing over. Useing both domains for the forseeable so as not to lose existing links etc.
This will at least gain a clear idea of support. If nothing else it will gain information on why some may dislike or worry about it.
alright, i'll spot you some background info :)
the initial reasoning was that the domain decision would have been a fait accompli for us all - if feddit.uk died, then users would either move to the new instance organized by the same power users, or accept moving elsewhere. as such, it would be a waste of time making a full forum post and spending weeks bickering on (what was) a dying forum, when none of the respondents would have been the ones putting their credit card on the line for it anyway. remember, at this point, there were no admin/mod facilities on feddit.uk - if someone wanted to go absolutely ham on the feddit.uk instance, we would have all be screwed. time was of the essence here
given the speed that things were moving to ensure a smooth transition, something had to give to speed up the process, and so a full community consent was one of those things on the chopping block. there just wasn't enough time for that before we faced full defederation and user exodus, on the initial timeline that was happening. however, a healthy debate was hosted for at least a week at the matrix space, and an approval vote was taken amongst those invested in the discussion, to whittle it down, such that progress could be made. the reasoning being, if a user was enough of an active user to have read all the feddit.uk meta threads that pointed them to the matrix space, and then joined that space to learn more, then they were obviously an invested user. users on feddit.uk were given plenty of pointers and hints to join the matrix space to discuss our future, and as such, it was confident that whatever was chosen through the vote by the matrix users would have had some community buy-in regardless of which option won.
for anyone with concerns about this from a "small cabal chooses a name" standpoint, consider that feddit.uk was decided by just one person. so, 🤷. why care? it wouldn't have been the end of the world even if the domain was picked by executive fiat
domain was kept secret initially to prevent sniping, and secondly to prevent users trying to signup somewhere that wasn't ready, and getting frustrated. i.e, keep it secret until point of no return.
but now? well, now it's not so clear cut at all, lol. i'm thankful we didn't have to go through a community fracture, but there's a lot of work that must be shelved for the time being.
i think we need time for the dust to settle, let our new admins wrangle the website back into compliance with broader federation, and then we can have the identity debate.
when that time comes, i still vote for quackhouse though, absolutely 100%. it's far superior to every other option we raised. 🦆
side note: my suggestion to anyone who wants to say "i dont like it" is to do better than to so easily say "i don't like it", and instead, provide your own damn counter proposal, and then say why yours is better. in the first week of discussion, we had quite a few "i dont like that" voices, and very little constructive "how about this?" voices. justify why your idea is better. 💪
It wasn't a secret at all- it was publicly debated in the matrix.space for quite a few days
when it was announced on feddit. 2 days ago. It was kept secret in thwe post. Hence why so many on here were interested to hear the name.
Matrix is not feddit. So of course discussions there are not to the community here. If you want support of a community. Its sorta best to actually involve that community dont you think.
you're right, but i'll point you to this, to save duplicate threading -> https://feddit.uk/comment/3713552
I'll remind you. A % of people left reddit due to there attitude to disability support. Specifically makeing popular apps used by those of us with visual impairment impractical.
No reason you should know this. But moving to new systems is complex for anyone in my situation. It takes weeks not a few days.
But even without my issues. When a group of people choose to leave a community to discuse its future. Blaiming those that do not create whole new accounts and learn new interfaces. For lacking input in the system when they don't follow you. Is pretty darned insulting to the community you are looking to win support from.
You really rally want to consider the politics of some of your statements.
And also remember. Thd people who decided to slow down and continue the current system. Are a part of the so called involved members.
that's very fair, i didn't consider the impact of what i said as i was writing it, i only wished to contextualise the decision making process behind the domain, (which was done in a time crunch). for my poor writing style in this regard, i am sorry.
likewise, no reason you should know this, but for what it's worth, i will state that i am autistic, and i am extremely bad with these types of political considerations when writing, talking, or anything really. you would think i would be more aware of the circumstances that others face given my difficulties but, well, that's the thing with my conditon, isn't it 😅. this is why i haven't opted to help out in a mod/admin capacity, because i know that i would botch the communications side (from past experience)
i understand where you are coming from, and i hope you can likewise do this with me ❤️
lastly, i will state that i am not trying to win anyone over with the post, i merely wished to answer the "how and why the name was purchased" part of your question. as you have said, i am happy to slow down and continue with the current system, now that we are saved, and that no major overhaul is needed just yet. the decisions taken were taken specifically because we would have been out of time, had we not been saved by today's events. were they good decisions? that's another question 🙂
side question for you: how do emojis work on screen readers? i am someone who likes to include emojis in posts to directly convey my thinking, but i had never considered that they might read out strangely.
Lol they don't. I hate emoji. And never use them but I am also old.
they don't read out at all? oh no! i would have thought that it would at least print words like "upside down smile" or "heart".
i will try my best to use them as an enhancement only then, like, to maybe only emphasize a statement instead of including them mid-text.
example 1) i am happy with this 🙂
versus
example 2) i am 🙂 with this.
in example 1, i have included a "smile" emoji at the end of the statement. in example 2, i replaced the word "happy" with a "smile" emoji.
if example 2 causes grief, then i will try my best to never write like that again.
Def the best approch.
Some systems are better then others. But most just say "image."
But honestly screen readers are not the only issue. The vaste majority of visually impaired have some vision. As such we tend ro tey and use it. Speach is slow and impracticle in most real world situations.
The issue is more websites. Filling the page with well crap. And the greaking trend of grey on white. Why is that shit so popular. It is unreadable by most. But even then these is so much code around the actual text. That when you are forced to ask the PC to read a section. It has to read through the wholw freaking page. As so many try to stop select and copy. They also effect readers ability.
What annoys me more. The wev was invented to prevent this shit. Early HTML was designed to be adapatnle by folks like me. Bur every "improovement" has pulled it further from the plan. While corps do not bother to spend the money sorting it.
OS is beyter then most. But still misses it dar to often.
i went down a rabbit hole last night about this, and found that there still isn't good support for alt text tagging on lemmy.
closest i found for emojis is something like this: 👋
at the end of the previous sentence, i included an emoji of a hand waving goodbye, and i have attempted to tag it using markdown. but, my suspicion is that it tries to read the alt text as a link, and it therefore doesn't work.
this is apparently the best lemmy can do for emojis. i think that is not good enough, and this needs to be improved by the developers
thank you for providing me with a teachable moment about accessibility.
i will do my best to keep readability in mind for the future. <3
Sorry. On the samsung phone it just says.
"Closest I found for emojis is somethibg like this"
Then nothing.
The samsung one requirs me to hit each paragraph. I find that the most usable.
I will try it out on mynlinux desktop. But honestly that machibe is set up with 4x 32inch monitors. So its rare I use it. Ajdbits not good.
Honestly i dont really like emojis. I can undersrand the old smilies. :( As they eblarge with font. Some stuff cobverts them to emojies but most screen readers just conver back to colon close bracket.
Most of the other stuff yeah as dar as I know most yonger people with visual impairment just ignore them.
Its not an issue when uskng them with people you know. My ex GD is the only one who seems unablento remember. (My vision was better when we dated and emojis were not a thing then)
... did you read my post? I literally said we should keep the feddit.uk accounts, only shut down signups and migrate the communities. With server access we could even resubscribe you to those communities automatically if you really didn't like the hassle. You won't need to re-learn a single thing.
From a practical perspective, debating domains in public is not doable at all. As anyone can sweep in and buy up that domain. That's why we needed to do it in a chatroom which was still public.