this post was submitted on 07 Sep 2023
1686 points (97.3% liked)

politics

19144 readers
3803 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

What an utter piece of shit.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] kava@lemmy.world 26 points 1 year ago (3 children)

From what I understand he didn't deactivate it.. it was already deactivated and he refused to turn it on.

He had disabled starlink systems over Russian territories - in order to help Ukraine. This included Crimea. Ukraine last year wanted to do a drone-strike on Crimea, so they asked Musk to turn them on. He refused, claiming he was scared of war escalation and that he didn't want to be involved in offensive war operations.

[–] Dozzi92@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The way you put it is at the very least a rationale. Obviously it can be debated one way or the other, but it makes more sense than him being overtly pro-Russia. I don't think he's so dumb as to make it obvious.

[–] kava@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah don't trust headlines. They create the best possible headline to make as many people as interested as possible.. forget about the truth or nuance. During this same period, remember that the US didn't want to give fighter jets or tanks to Ukraine out of fear of escalation. Musk was essentially following official US military policy.

[–] SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Don't trust billionaires to do the right thing.

[–] kava@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I agree. No one man should have all that power.

But we're not really talking about "what ifs" or "ideal worlds"

This is the world we have and this is what happened.

[–] SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, I'm saying billionaires should not have that power.

[–] kava@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

again.. i agree but this is the world we live and we are discussing reality not what ifs. i also think people shouldn't go hungry but here we are with hundreds of millions living in malnutrition

all i'm trying to do is give context so people can actually try and understand what is happening instead of having the wool pulled over their eyes by some other group of rich men

[–] SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So you know what really happened?

[–] kava@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

i doubt anybody knows what really happened besides musk, the US government, and some important people who work with the starlink system. so no, I don't know with any certainty what really happened.

but i can be reasonably sure that the headline used in this title is sensationalist and misleading

[–] Mr_Buscemi@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"As Ukrainian submarine drones strapped with explosives approached the Russian fleet, they “lost connectivity and washed ashore harmlessly,” Isaacson writes."

That's from the CNN article over this. The drones were in the middle of their approach when they got deactivated.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/07/politics/elon-musk-biography-walter-isaacson-ukraine-starlink/index.html

[–] kava@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

There's a reason there's weird wording in all of these articles. The reason the drones would have gotten "deactivated" as they got close to Crimea is because before they were near Crimea, they were connected to the system. Once they got close, they got disconnected since the satellites over Crimea were disabled. This is because Musk disabled Starlink over Russian territory very early on. Ukrainian officials would have been well aware before any operation. There are even sanctions in place since 2014 that Obama put in that restricts any company from doing business in Crimea.

The articles are wording it in a way that's meant to imply that he turned something off mid-operation in an attempt to stop a specific attack. This simply isn't the case.

I'm honestly impressed at the level of blatant twisting of the truth that's going around on the news. Are journalists lazy? Is this just click-seeking behavior? Or is it deliberate misinformation and misdirection?

Here's a quote from the article you linked

the Starlink service provided by his company SpaceX was never active over Crimea and that the Ukrainian government made an “emergency request” to him to turn on service.

“There was an emergency request from government authorities to activate Starlink all the way to Sevastopol,” Musk posted on X, the platform formally known as Twitter that he owns. Sevastopol is a port city in Crimea. “The obvious intent being to sink most of the Russian fleet at anchor. If I had agreed to their request, then SpaceX would be explicitly complicit in a major act of war and conflict escalation.”

Here are some articles from 2022

https://interestingengineering.com/culture/musk-denies-blocking-starlink-crimea

SpaceX has disabled Starlink over Russian-controlled regions of Ukraine. As per Business Insider, some have suggested it may have been shut off over certain regions to prevent Russia from exploiting the network.

https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-blocks-starlink-in-crimea-amid-nuclear-fears-report-2022-10

prompting speculation that it [starlink system] had been shut off in areas controlled by Russia — perhaps to prevent the Kremlin from exploiting the network.

https://news.yahoo.com/elon-musk-blocks-ukraine-using-174508012.html?guccounter=1

Elon Musk denied a Ukrainian request to enable the use of Starlink in Russian-occupied Crimea.

That quote is clear and to the point. He didn't turn anything off. He refused to turn something on.

https://www.eurasiantimes.com/no-starlink-for-ukraine-elon-musk-makes-a-u-turn-turns-down/

Speaking to political analyst Ian Bremmer from the Eurasia Group, Musk said that Ukraine’s government had urged him to turn on Starlink in Crimea, which Russia invaded and forcibly occupied in 2014

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/07/31/elon-musk-starlink-ukraine-drone-attack-crimea/

Elon Musk 'refuses to turn on Starlink' for Crimea drone attack

https://www.economist.com/briefing/2023/01/05/how-elon-musks-satellites-have-saved-ukraine-and-changed-warfare

In September Ukrainian officials told The Economist that Mr Musk had rejected a Ukrainian request to allow Starlink to be used in Crimea, a part of Ukraine which Russia invaded and annexed in 2014, ... SpaceX has continued to restrict the use of Starlink in Russian-occupied territory, according to Ukrainian officials

[–] SomeRandomWords@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think Musk is scummy, but I appreciate your response here clearing things up. It makes sense why he wouldn't re-activate it, but at least it's not like he shut it off mid-flight. They just went out of the known range.

I still think Musk is scummy, but for other reasons.

[–] kava@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Yeah I understand why he wouldn't wanna get involved. Start facilitating aggressive operations and you're all of a sudden a legitimate military target. I have doubts Russia would shoot down a SpaceX satellite.. but you never know.

We generally don't expect US companies to actively participate in wars, especially a war that the US isn't officially involved in.

I think Musk's decision to offer Starlink access for free to Ukraine is an interesting one. On one hand, they get a bunch of good PR for helping out a country during an aggressive invasion - we're talking hundreds of millions they essentially donated to Ukraine. On the other hand, any good PR they got has probably been canceled out by now. Which I think is ironic - no good deed goes unpunished.

However, I don't think Musk helped just for good PR. I think he felt it was a good opportunity to show off the capacities of his system during a globally publicized war. And it seems like it has definitely met expectations - the Ukrainians have come to rely on the system. So other countries are taking notice. China and Russia are both developing similar systems.

So yeah, I'd probably do the same thing if I were him. He's probably just following the advice of his advisors. I think Musk is scummy too. I don't like him for a number of reasons, the prime being that it seems he's putting all his eggs on fascists coming to power in the US.

But this specific news cycle I think is a psyop meant to discredit Musk. Which fuck it, I don't care really. But I like to know the truth, not propaganda. If I dislike someone, I want to dislike them for actual reasons not lies told to me by a news headline.

[–] average_internet_enjoyer@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Honestly, it's just that journalists want to make Elon Musk look like the bad guy. And thank you so much for taking the time to write this out so that it is far more obvious what's happening because it's just so confusing what they're saying

[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

except Musk said none of these things did he? His response seemed to be in the other direction.