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Smacking children and how it literally has no benefit to the child whatsoever, and makes you a bad parent if you still do it.
I used to be a strong supporter of smacking kids, I even signed a government petition to revoke the NZ anti-smacking bill, but after studying it at uni and then keeping abreast of the research afterwards, it has only negative effects, and yet bad parents still defend it.
Hard to talk about because people get weirdly defensive even when there's NO evidence that smacking kids is either beneficial or effective.
There's more than two choices here for you and your father that don't boil down to logic puzzles or child abuse.
It sounds like his heart was in the right place, but without understanding your mental capabilities.
At that ages, punishments need to be clearly established and actionable. The child is behaving badly, the parent demonstrates "if you keep doing that, you'll lose out on (Xbox, free time, family game night etc etc), then following through. If that fails, then removing the child to isolate for a while. Once they've calmed down, then following through with the aforementioned punishment.
Your father's punishments would probably start working around 9-10 years old according to research.
Finally, the "I got hit and I turned out okay" is terrible logic. That justifies any behaviour that someone can survive through. Just glance at the research to see why smacking is a wholly negative ordeal with no upsides for the child.
What is the appropriate way to parent children? All my friends who try the “gentle parenting” approach have horrible children. They don’t listen and their only gear is shrieking banshee. Most children I’ve witnessed don’t listen to logic or reason so how do you discipline? I don’t have nor do I ever want children, I’m just curious. I also dislike children so my perspective may be slightly jaded.
I'll start with the wholly negative effects of hitting children, specifically the section on Effects on Behaviour and Development. Time and time again, scientific studies prove there is literally no benefit to hitting children, with only poor outcomes.
My understanding is the most effective means of punishment involve first establishing an environment of rich support and love for the child. Then when there's poor behaviour, short time outs.
You remember that episode of The Simpsons when Bart steals the game cartridge, and what upsets him most is Marge's total loss of attention?
A secondary strong punishment is removal of positives, like revoking video game access etc.
It's hard to critique whatever parents you mention without knowing specifics, but it often comes down to:
Finally, sometimes children and just little shits with bad temperament. It's vital to understand that countless studies show physical abuse does not result in corrective behaviour, with only negative developmental outcomes.
That was a great response! Thanks for being so thorough. I’d love to see this in action and see what kind of thriving adults it produces. I’m not knocking my friends because I’m not a parent so maybe they are doing great but their kids just have crazy personalities. I try not to judge them as parents since I don’t know what it’s like.
Honestly I get where you're coming from with the gentle parenting approach, and I think some people use it as an excuse to not engage with crappy behaviour. But I think kids whining and behaving a bit crappy is normal, and they're often expressing complex feelings that they haven't learned to understand and manage, and that they don't know how to explain. Maybe kids that learn to suppress that behaviour at a young age, through fear of punishment, or being shunned and isolated (eg 'go to your room') may go on to be adults who supress their feelings and don't express and advocate for their needs and. I guess we'll see won't we, as this generation of kids gets older. And some other parenting style will be the 'correct' one by the time they have kids. My niece is going through a really annoying whiney and whingey phase and it makes her very exhausting to be around at the moment, so I do sympathise with where you're coming from!
IMO I'm pro spanking within reason. There's circumstances where it's warranted. I don't believe in going overboard but the problem is that's all based on opinion from person to person. Lots of kids I see need a spanking based on how they act in public. I'd agree that the parents I've seen "gentle parent" have kids who are assholes and the ones I've seen grow up are still assholes but older. Could be a fault in the parent somewhere but idk. I was spanked as a kid and looking back, when I was spanked it was absolutely warranted. Spanked my oldest as I deemed necessary and he's turned out to be pretty caring for others and a really solid dude. He's my son and best friend.
I guess my thought is that spanking is OK but should be seldom used and within reason. Unfortunately "reason" is subjective.
There is no "within reason" for child abuse.
The vast vast majority of scientific research proves that hitting children only results in negative outcomes, not only in child development, but it's constantly shown to not reduce the undesired behaviour.
If a child can't be reasoned with for why it's actions were wrong, they can't reason why their loving parent strikes them.
If you choose to ignore what's essentially scientific fact and continue hitting children, then the adage "I was hit as a kid and I turned out okay" might be plain wrong.
Furthermore, suggesting that an action is okay because the child "turned out fine" can be used to justify any objectionable behaviour. "I was molested and I turned out okay, therefore molestation is justifiable". If your child did indeed turn out okay, that is despite you choosing to assault them, as ALL research shows you were in the wrong.
I read through it and in all honesty, what I'm gathering, is that it's common for people to go overboard. Either that or my family (father, myself, son) are some kind of insane statistical anomaly. Relationship down the line is fantastic, and son doesn't have outbursts and isn't violent.
Seems the underlying thing is that people use corporal punishment beyond a simple spank swat or hit on the butt. The things they speak about seem to be referring to beating, pulling hair, using sticks, paddles, etc. Even resulting in physical marks or hospitalization. Again, the line between spanking and beating is subjective. ALL research isn't showing I'm in the wrong. It's statistically showing that it has negative impacts overall, but this also, again, complies spanking into sticks, paddles, pulling hair, etc. together.
Ofc a child will be violent when you beat them with a stick or belt. A smack on the butt? Quick and effective. Hot sauce is spicy, therefore all sauces are spicy. Show me a study where they separate the difference.
Imagine defending hitting kids...
I was also spanked as a kid. My dad’s was fueled by hatred and anger. It was very rough and mean and he’d yell afterwards. We have a terrible relationship and are basically no contact. My mom spanked rarely but it was a compassionate spanking. Afterwards she would explain why, ask me not to do the bad thing again, and then hug me and make me tell her I loved her. We have an excellent relationship. So I yeah, I think spanking can be done in a positive way but only reserved for dire situations. So, I’m not quite sold on the gentle parenting. The world isn’t gentle and will rarely cater to your needs. I’m willing to hear perspectives and view outcomes though!
Right, I think the core issue is that most people (a LOT) use spanking as an immediate, "no!" which leads to many beatings, excessiveness, and more than likely, actual physical abuse.
The people I've met where their parents were responsible with it are great dudes. The people I've met who were simply... Beaten and battered, do not live successful lives for the most part.
My opinion, is that it can be effective if used responsibly and within reason.
Most comments I get are along the lines of, "ha have fun asking why your son doesn't talk to you in the future." what they don't see is that we're best friends and my kid is an adult and is "punishing us" by threatening to live at home longer every time we ask him to clean up the basement. He's responsible af, has a good savings, bought a new car, works full time, etc. I don't understand the issue when everything has turned out amazing. Yes, I spanked my kid. I did not hit him with any object, throw him, punch him, throw things at him, etc.
It's difficult to accept the other perspective of gentle parenting when most of those kids I meet are total selfish assholes. Even more so when I compare to the level of responsibility, competency, and integrity that my son has compared to other people his age. Like I said in another post, I must be a backwards ass statistical anomaly or something. Either that, or I did it right. If not, I did something right.