this post was submitted on 28 Aug 2023
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Pope says 'backward' US conservatives replaced faith with ideology (www.euronews.com)
submitted 1 year ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world
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Pope Francis condemned the "very strong, organised, reactionary attitude" in the US church and said Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.

Pope Francis has blasted the “backwardness” of some conservatives in the US Catholic Church, saying they have replaced faith with ideology and that a correct understanding of Catholic doctrine allows for change over time.

Francis’ comments were an acknowledgment of the divisions in the US Catholic Church, which has been split between progressives and conservatives who long found support in the doctrinaire papacies of St John Paul II and Benedict XVI, particularly on issues of abortion and same-sex marriage.

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[–] atempuser23@lemmy.world 68 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I have found this to be true. The current pope is doing a lot of work to bring Catholicism into the modern age. Starting with acknowledging and addressing in material ways the history of abuse.

There is going to be , or should be , a full on schism in the US church. The parishioners I practice with are more for the Republican Party than for the pope. They basically are waiting for him to die and ignoring doctrine that does not match ‘how it used to be’ Ya know with all of the sexual abuse and bigotry.

[–] ALostInquirer@lemm.ee 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

There is going to be , or should be , a full on schism in the US church. The parishioners I practice with are more for the Republican Party than for the pope. They basically are waiting for him to die and ignoring doctrine that does not match ‘how it used to be’ Ya know with all of the sexual abuse and bigotry.

How many schisms would that make now? There was the Protestant schism, the Anglican one, Eastern Orthodox one (I think?), and uhh...I'm sure there may be more but at any rate, I guess they certainly are due for another given it's been awhile.

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 year ago (2 children)

No Council of Nicaea fans?

Constantine: Ok guys, nobody leaves the room until we sort out this Holy Trinity thing you're all killing each other over.

[–] ALostInquirer@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I still have no clue what's up with the holy trinity tbh 🤨

I chalk it up to, "well, glad i'm not christian" and leave it at that as much as I can.

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago

Well neither did Constantine. But people were killing each other over it, so... Council of Nicaea. From what I understand he didn't really say anything in the Council, just sat there and let all the priests argue it out.

[–] p1mrx@sh.itjust.works 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I left catholocism shortly after getting my CS degree, but I think it works roughly like this:

class Trinity {
 private:
  God g;
 public:
  God& father = g;
  God& son = g;
  God& holy_spirit = g;
};

Edit: stupid Lemmy can't render ampersands correctly: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/3774

[–] atempuser23@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Basically the holy trinity is the idea that Jesus,God and the Holy Spirit are all aspects of the same being. They are not independent of each other.

In Lovecraftian terms the full extent of God is an eldritch being is so incomprehensible that it would break mortals if he appears directly to them. Jesus and the Holy spirit are two ways that god can interact with mortals without them, or the universe, breaking. They are not lesser separate gods .

[–] SCB@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Think of it how like the US gov is made up of the executive, judicial, and legislative branches but they're all part of the government.

[–] originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

you can just smell the divinity

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 year ago

We're not all that different. We just replaced religion with ideology, but it's not all that different. Still killing each other over stupid shit and pretending it's the righteous thing to do.

[–] Widowmaker_Best_Girl@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The Anglican schism is generally considered to be part of the protestant schism.

[–] ALostInquirer@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

Ngl I wasn't sure, it just pops out to me as its own thing, so thanks on the clarification!

[–] abraxas@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 year ago

That schism happened with Vatican II. After that point, it seems like Popes have regularly been political instead of doing what they knew was right, because they seem to think slight improvement by the congregation is better than alienating the conservative membership. I think the growth Sedevacantism terrifies them more than anything. The group is clearly heretical by every Catholic doctrine, but so popular you will not see any formal declaration that they are in a state of excommunication.

The thing is, we non-Catholics should be rooting the religion on to shed that craziness. Whether you like religion or not, Catholicism is not going anywhere and a progressive Catholic Church is better than a Regressive Catholic Church.