The ebike class 1/2/3 concept is stupid puritan nonsense driven by cyclist jealousy and serves only to limit the usefulness of ebikes as car replacements.
this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2023
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I'll engage with the struggle session: I think these distinctions are good actually, as they clarify the gradients between a bicycle and a moped. The 20mph speed limit in particular I think is a pretty important safety feature to have, and a reasonable speed limit on bike paths. The difference between 20mph and 28mph is not trivial, you're doubling your kinetic energy.
I do agree that Class 3 without a throttle is silly, I think that's a state-specific rule.
The distinctions between a bicycle and a(n electric, fuck those loud little gas motors) moped are a historical relic and should be blurred away to total unrecognizability.
what would you say the difference is between a moped and a motorcycle?
Styling. Another distinction which should fade away
So if bicycle = moped and moped = motorcycle, ebikes are capable of highway speeds. Do you think they should require driver's licenses?
Cars should require extensive licenses, but nothing smaller. The best thing we can do to improve safety right now is decrease the number of cars on the road.
I don't think you should be able to drive a motorcycle without a license (which should require taking a course and exam). They hit 140+mph and cannot brake as quickly as cars. Without knowing how to ride and to follow rules of the road, they are a life-threatening danger to other people.
Big disagree on the "no licensing for motorcycles". When I took my motorcycle class, it was very terrifying seeing other students barely able to operate the light learner bikes, like 200cc suzukis. During our breaks, the worst riders in class always said how they wanted a big ole Harley or similar cruiser but had almost no aptitude for balance or control of the learner bike.
Everyone in the class passed and it equated to a DMV road test and I am genuinely afraid for them on the road.
I think motorcycle education should be more extensive. I think part of what makes motorcycling so dangerous(aside from the obvious wrecking balls that cars are), is inexperienced riders just falling down completely on their own and ending up very injured.
driver's license? what's next, a license to make toast in my own damn toaster‽‽
A driver's license is required for class 3 bikes in Europe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcllE7fx8-I
I intuitively feel that what the people that are opposed to drivers licenses are saying makes sense but yeah, libertarians. Extremism of any kind only works in an ideal world, I suppose.
Why should surgeons have to be schooled? Just let them figure it out. Why should forklift drivers be licensed?
that was a room full of unintentional clowns and my initial comment was a joke
Clowns indeed. And still... In an ideal world...
I think driver's licenses serve more to give cops something to harass people over than they do to demonstrate any kind of competence.
Are you trolling?
Not a bit.
Drivers licenses function as a way to ensure the people making use of a vehicle know how to operate said vehicle. Drivers licenses help keep casualties and accidents low.
Driving a car - or really any vehicle in congested traffic - is a complex action with many factors one needs to be aware of. Same goes for being on a moped or a bike. Knowing how to navigate traffic, knowing how your own machine works, knowing the laws for navigation, knowing how to communicate with other trafficants, knowing what is expected of you and others. These things are much better learned in a classroom rather than over time.
The US has shitty drivers in part because it has such a lax drivers license.
What is the licensing procedure like in other countries? Are there requisite multi-day classes?
Yeah lots of classes, you need a certain amount of hours on the road with a teacher. Stuff like that. The exam is also one you can fail, and you can't just retake it immediately
Casualties and "accidents" in cars aren't low, and driver's licenses don't help. If we want everyone to know some important safety information, just add it to the public school curriculum. The existence of driver's licenses is one of the smaller problems with cars existing, because in practice they mostly just serve as a way to force most people to carry photo ID with them everywhere and give cops one more thing to bother people about.
I'm not saying they're low. I'm saying the fact that we require drivers to know the ways of the road as well as how to control their vehicle keeps accidents lower than they would otherwise be.
That would be a great thing to do!
In my utopia we'd still expect people to have a license to operate fast-moving / heavy machinery that can easily kill the user or others around it. The fact that the current system uses it as another tool of oppresion does not mean it is without function. There's a reason we also require licenses for machinery in construction, mining, demolition, agriculture, etc. even though the police never hassles anyone for these licenses.
Nope, these classes are derived from European legislation. A class 3 bike with a throttle isn't considered as a bicycle here.
What the fuck why? Is there a class 4 bike that can go 55, but isn't allowed to have brakes?
We have 2 classes of mopeds. The ones that are allowed to reach speed up to 25 km/h (class A - without license) and the ones that go up to 45 km/h (class B - with license. These mopeds have combustion engines and no usable pedals. E-bikes with a throttle are considered electrical mopeds and aren't categorized as e-bikes anymore.
E-bikes or mopeds aren't allowed to reach speeds above 45 km/h.