this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2023
809 points (97.8% liked)
Lefty Memes
4307 readers
816 users here now
An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.
If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.
Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, updooting good contributions and downdooting those of low-quality!
Rules
0. Only post socialist memes
That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)
1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here
Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.
2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such
That means condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.
3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.
That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
4. No Bigotry.
The only dangerous minority is the rich.
5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Mantic Minotaur" when answering question 2)
6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
- Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:
- Racism
- Sexism
- Queerphobia
- Ableism
- Classism
- Rape or assault
- Genocide/ethnic cleansing or (mass) deportations
- Fascism
- (National) chauvinism
- Orientalism
- Colonialism or Imperialism (and their neo- counterparts)
- Zionism
- Religious fundamentalism of any kind
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
What is the country of origin? Please point out to me where the Aztec country is. Do you mean Mexico? Are they entitled to all the relics of the past civilizations theirs crushed? And yes, I know the idol in Indiana Jones isn't really Aztec, but the overall point stands.
With the exception of the very few cases where a country can actually trace its culture and history all the way back to when those artifacts were made, ancient culture and artifacts belong to humanity as a whole, not whatever geopolitical entity happens to control the land they're on at the time of discovery. It's not a natural resource, it's human history.
While we may debate wether the Aztecs descendants are now the Mexicans, they're clearly not the English. The fact that it's human history is exactly why it can't be all stored in mostly one museum in one country
Would it be ok if Spain took it then?
The Aztecs are not from Europe, dingdong. How is this a difficult concept??
I don't think that strangers coming to your country and taking your historical artifacts is a good thing, wether it's the English or the Spanish
It should be as close to the origin as possible. Sure Mexico isnt fully "Aztec'" but it's the closest option, certainly closer than anyone else
Uh yikes. Mexico has issues but they also have real institutions too. Further, who are you or I to say? Even if such issues exist, it's already a system in failure-state. Returning to the host country is the first step towards a success-state, even if internal theft happens afterwards.
Put this way: as long as the home nation has an appropriate facility, the artifact should be returned promptly.
I agree with most of your points, but not this:
I don't have a say, as I neither have artifacts nor am of the relevant culture. You may speak for yourself. But others may have a say.
However, this could be interpreted as the facilities with the artifacts currently, have no say. They very much do. Discounting them is also wrong.
We can all discuss the moral grounds, which should include which groups get a say.
Cheers
Not sure what you mean. We are all from places, which may be missing artefacts.
Mexico has the federal department INAH (National Institute of Anthropology and History), which preserves and cares for ancient artifacts and historical sites from the Maya, Aztec, Izapa, Teotihuacan, and more. They operate over 100 museums and handle over 139,000 archeological sites, with 150 open to the public. I think Mexico would be able to handle any artifacts found in Mexico.