this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2023
632 points (80.4% liked)
Memes
45612 readers
723 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
We had a user who would uncritically support Russia and Operation Z. A "Z poster", if you will. They were banned on several accounts and no one really missed them.
Some of us tepidly support the CPRF, which is largely controlled opposition. We recognize that counting since 2014, there's a lot of propaganda, civilian strikes, and land mines coming from both sides. Most of us favor an immediate armistice along the present LOC that follows pretty closely a "dividing line" for the plurality ethnicity as evidenced by the past 30 years of linguistic, electoral, and poling data. And we favor quick peace as opposed to continued hostility that likely will go nowhere.
It sucks that Ukraine's self-determination is being jeopardized by Russia. It sucks that Luhansk's self-determination is being jeopardized by Ukraine. It sucks that there's a geopolitical standoff between the two strongest military powers that overlays this. It sucks that the only imaginable ruling party in Russia is a reactionary capitalist one that was ushered in by Clinton's intervention. And it sucks that they're all probably just going to die in a field to resolve it, and make the situation in Bosnia look like a vacation resort in comparison.
There is a silver lining in that we are seeing a great power struggle to subjugate its neighbor, and also in that the wearing down of NATO and Russia allows the less belligerent, more progressive, emerging superpower to have more sway in the world. Some might say that makes it "worth it" but I certainly don't.
This is uncritically supporting the Z operation. It rewards the attacker and gives them absolutely no reason to not try again in 10 years (either in the same country or in another one). It's also what happened in 2014 and you see the results of that now.
Would you favor an immediate armistice with the Nazis in 1943? I surely hope not, but that would be a quick peace, very much like what the advocate for now.
I'm not sure you know the meaning of the word uncritical but go off.
Also, just so we're on the same page, what do you believe happened in 2014 and what has happened since then until Feb 2022? What political and demographic conditions do you believe set the stage for the conflict that has been going on since then?
Your comparison to WW2 in 1943 is also wildly off. For one, you've got it mixed up which side is wearing the Nazi insignia and celebrating Nazi collaborators and enthusiastic participants in the Holocaust. For another, the USSR turned the war around in 1943. It would make no sense to call for armistice when you're winning. Ukraine is currently stalled and bleeding manpower and materiel. The counteroffensive is all but done, were it not for Western insistence that fighting continues to the last Ukrainian.
I don't know, which side are Wagner and Rogozin on?
USSR was just as stalled in early 1943, bleeding manpower and materiel, getting massive war supplies from the USA, and the West was insisting that fighting continues to the last Russian. Sounds familiar?
Okay but can you actually name institutional promotion of nazism? For example publishing celebrations of Bandera, putting the OUN trident on old soviet monuments, funding neonazi run youth camps, etc?
I'm guessing you can't because while there are certainly Nazi Russians they've also tried to suppress any sort of Nazi organizing within Russia. The state is hostile to organized Nazism unlike Ukraine.
To be clear, theyre still a right wing neoliberal hellscape, but it is a low bar to clear and one clears it.
Nazis fighting Nazis