this post was submitted on 17 Jun 2023
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I'm confused by your definition. When googling Loli, you get the lolicon Wikipedia page which has an image of girls that look... I'd say maybe 10? And Loli is named after Lolita, who in the book is like 12? I'm not seeing anywhere linking the definition of Loli to women that look clearly 18+ in any way. I'm not even seeing strong ties between Loli and girls that look 16.
My argument is that to appease the large number of countries that ban drawn lolicon, the biggest NSFW instance should take a safe stance and ban that content across the board. I don't care if other instances serve the needs of those who love lolicon, I'm happy to personally block any that pop up even if my instance doesn't. But the biggest NSFW instance can distances themselves. This is clearly a contentious issue and it is one that the international community hasn't made a firm decision on.
Here's a handy guide. Notably you'll probably be interested in uzaki and hestia who are clearly mature (have large breasts). all of the loli characters in the image are canonically adults, most of whom are natural ages (no 5000 years shit) and clearly look like adults. The only one that even remotely looks like a child here is hayase. Under the "not loli" section we see a list of canonically underage characters. most of whom are teenage and have either teenage or adult physiology drawn in a non-loli style.
For reference here is a child with two teens.
As you can see, loli is not an age. There are child characters in anime, including underage-looking adult characters, who are loli. However, loli does not exclusively refer to these sorts of characters. When I read lemmynsfw's rules, it's clear they would ban nsfw imagery of the child character in the second image, of a character like hayase, while allowing the rest.
I'd like to understand where you are coming from though. In the first image, do you think all of those characters "appear underage"? Do you think they should all be banned?
Edit: both pics are sfw.
The entire point of loli is that they look underage, and the whole loli industry is held up by paedos lmao
Speaking as a weeb, the comment with the link is probably the best comment to try and understand where Otome-chan is coming from. (I tried replying to it, but threading breaks this many levels deep)
The bigger problem is that "loli" has become an appropriated term. It means different things to different people, and it's almost impossible to reach a rational consensus about it between in-groups and out-groups. To people outside the anime community it just means "pedo ~~bait~~ wank material", and anyone who argues is "clearly" splitting hairs and trying to defend an unjustifiable fetish. (Edit: To be clear here I didn't mean pedo bait in the "borderline" context that Otome-chan interpreted it below. Editing this in because I don't want to belabor this topic with another reply.)
I like shortstacks. I don't think normalizing pedophilia as an acceptable fetish in polite company is okay, keep that shit to yourself. I don't think the person I'm replying to endorses carte blanche pedophilia on kbin. Hardliners are still going to insist that these concepts are mutually exclusive, but I think that's as far as the discussion can usefully go.
In practice there's two kinds of lolis IMO. there's the stereotypic kind which is similar to chibi characters. there's pretty much unanimous consensus that these should not be involved in nsfw. then there's the "pedo bait" kind as mentioned, which is basically the anime equivalent of "recent 18" (but at any age). short, flat, youthful, not overtly a child.
it seems obvious that lemmynsfw has banned the former, and allowed the latter.
As for pedophilia: my stance is this: pedophilia is a mental disorder and those people should get medical treatment and help, CP of real people should be banned entirely and illegal. It is never okay.
Is this image some sort of gospel? In that case, there's no visual or stylistic difference between Hestia and Naruse. Even Rory looks the same as the others. So clearly this image is piss poor at communicating some sort of clear visual definition of Loli.
For the record, out of the lolis, I'd count the first five as looking underage, not just the first one. This is largely due to their giant heads, tiny bodies.
Now here's the image Wikipedia uses for lolicon: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/89/Lolicon_Sample.png/1280px-Lolicon_Sample.png
I think the consensus is that for anyone who is not a Loli connoisseur, lolicon is pretty much defined by Wikis view of it, not some random image that doesn't really clarify much about true Loli characteristics. I have no problem with hentai of adult or ambiguously adult characters. I'm just saying that if you're gonna call it Loli, people are gonna expect the image I linked to.
no? I just did a quick search, found it to be a useful guide, and shared.
yes they are indeed quite similar. hestia is borderline loli at best, but the point remains. Oshino is perhaps the best example of a typical loli character in that image.
Because you're failing to understand what loli actually is. First, there is a spectrum of appearances and styles. But second, that it's really not about age. It's a similar sort of situation to "chibi" which are also not children.
Yes so the characters shown in that pic do fall under "loli" but loli does not only refer to characters that look like that. loli characters can look like adults. they can look underage. they can be adults. they can be underage. they can look like a mix of underage and adult. Wikipedia's example is perhaps the most "extreme" usage of the word, which makes sense since it's trying to provide an example of the concept unambiguously. though a variety of examples are really needed tbh.
I mean you're free to think as you please. but it's clear you'd consider any man who dates me to be a pedophile which is obviously laughable.
Sure then I think it's a communication breakdown. When most people speak of nsfw imagery of lolis and say it's fine, they're talking about stuff like this (sfw example). undeniably a loli, not obviously a child. might be a teen or adult from visuals. The example wikipedia has is the other "popular" type of loli character, who typically do not show up in nsfw content except the most extreme, are considered 'looking underage' and pretty much banned from most nsfw stuff and lemmynsfw clearly has banned it.
To me, lemmynsfw's post seems to suggest the image I shared is allowed, while the image you shared is not. Is this not the interpretation you got as well? When people react harshly, to me I think it's because they are probably looking at that wiki image thinking that's what lemmynsfw is allowing (when it's not).
"loli" refers to both types.