this post was submitted on 17 Jun 2023

166 points (100.0% liked)

/kbin meta

16 readers

2 users here now

Magazine dedicated to discussions about the kbin itself. Provide feedback, ask questions, suggest improvements, and engage in conversations related to the platform organization, policies, features, and community dynamics. ---- * Roadmap 2023 * m/kbinDevlog * m/kbinDesign

founded 2 years ago

166

We should defederate from lemmynsfw (kbin.social)

submitted 2 years ago by LollerCorleone@kbin.social to c/kbinMeta@kbin.social

282 comments fedilink hide all child comments

The mods there have decided to allow underage looking content, skirting close to CP. Unless we want such disgusting stuff on our feed, I think we should defederate from that instance.

Pinging @ernest as well.

top 50 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] 0xtero@kbin.social 61 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (14 children)

As long as kbin domain blocking tools work, I can choose to block their content - and I will, because 1) it's pretty fucking vile 2) it might be illegal. But I don't need it to be defederated, I'm happier if I have the tools to deal with this (and other similar stuff).

I wish we could remove the The "Random Post" / "Random Thread" boxes from the front page. Those seem to display NSFW material quite often - I don't really have any need for "random content" especially since I can't control the source.

[–] masterspace@kbin.social 48 points 2 years ago (4 children)

But I don't need it to be defederated, I'm happier if I have the tools to deal with this (and other similar stuff).

I'm sorry but this is asinine. We're not talking about blocking too many posts about Taylor Swift, we're talking about new users of kbin getting fed illegal child porn in their feed.

Kbin should defederate immediately.

load more comments (4 replies)

[–] Kichae@kbin.social 22 points 2 years ago (1 children)

If it "might be illegal" than there actually might be a legal responsibility to defederate. Federation is not links to content, it's mirrors of content, and anything you're seeing while browsing kbin.social is being hosted here.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] Trebach@kbin.social 20 points 2 years ago (2 children)

it might be illegal.

Sounds like an existential risk to the server to federate with them unless they tighten things up then. @ernest is beholden to both the laws of where his server is hosted and where he lives, which I believe are Germany and Poland. If he violates either, there goes the instance and/or him.

load more comments (2 replies)

load more comments (11 replies)

[–] Highsight@kbin.social 47 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (6 children)

This seemed odd to me, so I went to investigate. A clarification was posted 2 hours ago. Stating very clearly that:

loli/shota are BANNED and not okay in any way.
IRL kids are BANNED OBVIOUSLY because no shit.
characters who are petite/young-looking but not obviously underage are ALLOWED because as an instance the votes decided that banning all of it was destructive, and differentiating between them can be impossible.

So, it seems like an anti-witch hunting measure, which has ironically caused a massive witch hunt for the instance as a whole. These guys don't seem to in any way support pedophilia (thank God).

[–] cyberian_khatru@kbin.social 12 points 2 years ago

What an odd way to initially phrase it. Saying "underage-looking nsfw" is such an underhanded wording that it makes me feel like they were trying to stir up a shitstorm against their own userbase. The followup is way better "we're allowing weebs, no loli, some of you might still think it looks underage but we're leaving it at the mods' discretion". But the damage is already done.

load more comments (5 replies)

[–] Eggyhead@kbin.social 29 points 2 years ago (5 children)

HARD DISAGREE

Another community having the possibility of posting something you don’t approve of when nothing is actually illegal, nobody is actually getting hurt, and you could just have blocked that community (or even just offending users) for yourself in the first place is just a really dumb reason to force the whole instance to defederate from it.

It’s up to Ernest what happens, but I’m not on board for unnecessary censorship of cartoons, of all things. I honestly worry for you.

[–] Bloonface@kbin.social 36 points 2 years ago

It is actually illegal in some jurisdictions, including mine.

[–] lemonflavoured@kbin.social 24 points 2 years ago

It probably is illegal in some jurisdictions, that's the issue.

load more comments (3 replies)

[–] exohuman@kbin.social 28 points 2 years ago

As much as I enjoy the idea of an adult community, it has to be adult in both idea and implementation. Allowing depictions of underage people (especially in the age of AI) is plain stupid. I’m blocking lemmynsfw and suggest you all do the same.

[–] ernest@kbin.social 24 points 2 years ago (4 children)

@LollerCorleone thanks for that.

[–] DarkThoughts@kbin.social 49 points 2 years ago (5 children)

This is highly misleading and makes more sense when reading the original question thread.
https://kbin.social/m/lemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com/t/42695/READ-THIS-clarification-on-the-decision-and-poll-results

This affects fictional content where it is hard to determine the age of the character. No obvious underage stuff.

[–] ernest@kbin.social 87 points 2 years ago (10 children)

I think it's necessary to monitor the situation and how they will handle moderation, but for now, I would prefer to do it from a distance from kbin. There is currently a significant issue with moderation, and disturbing content can remain up for too long. I'm working on improving this issue as well.

[–] Otome-chan@kbin.social 30 points 2 years ago (2 children)

it'd be nice if you could write up a short thing on your philosophy for federating/defederating/content. many of us would like to simply have full federation and curate content ourselves, though it's understandable that moderation needs to happen in some cases.

[–] blightbow@kbin.social 13 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

many of us would like to simply have full federation and curate content ourselves, though it's understandable that moderation needs to happen in some cases.

Agreed. I think the emphasis needs to be on usage of NSFW tagging, and making sure users have the ability to block magazines that they think are borderline (or just bad at tagging their content) without having to click into that magazine.

That said, I would not be opposed to a middle ground where entire instances can be flagged as NSFW so that their content is automatically tagged. 1) Instances should be able to voluntarily tag themselves like this so that all posts originating from that instance are automatically tagged, and 2) admins of other instances should be given the option to flag other instances as NSFW to their local instance as an alternative to defederating. There is still some room for overreaction with #2, but it's still putting control in the hands of that instance's users whether they want to interact with that content or not.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] Bloonface@kbin.social 12 points 2 years ago

The more pressing matter is that simply viewing such images is a crime in some jurisdictions, let alone distributing them. It exposes both the site itself, any federating instances and users of any federating instances to potential legal issues.

More philosophically, I don't care if people that want to look at underage anime girls fuck off. They can go and be creepy weebs somewhere else.

[–] ZILtoid1991@kbin.social 21 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I'm personally most worried about the toxicity of the western loli community. I had to deal with them as a moderator of anime communities, most famously an anime shitposting page on Facebook, and they're the worst.

[–] Killakomodo@kbin.social 24 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Yeah pedos tend to be shit people, whoda thunk it?

[–] ZILtoid1991@kbin.social 12 points 2 years ago (3 children)

It's not just that.

They think if you're not a big fan of loli, then you don't belong to the anime community, and you must be harassed out from there. If I had a dollar every time people were harassed on Twitter for saying they like some generic shounen instead of some borderline loli porn...

load more comments (3 replies)

load more comments (8 replies)

[–] Izzent@lemmy.world 22 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Anyone against defederating is seriously messed up. You included.

[–] DarkThoughts@kbin.social 51 points 2 years ago (12 children)

I don't know why you feel the need to insult me over trivial bullshit like this, but I can throw that particular one right back at you, just for that.

load more comments (12 replies)

load more comments (3 replies)

load more comments (3 replies)

[–] PabloDiscobar@kbin.social 18 points 2 years ago

There is a good case here to defederate every instance by default and only federate based on a white list.

There are criminals in the fediverse obviously and we should split from them immediately. Don't forget that their content is copied to the servers of Ernest automatically.

Again, Beehaw defederated 380 instances and it's not just because they disagree with their political stance, but mostly because of this kind of horrible content. Which will come from another new instance, and another, etc, etc. Which means that we need to update Ernest regularly to protect his servers. Or make the default setting as defederated.

[–] Gordon_Freeman@kbin.social 18 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

and now the federation drama begins...

[–] LollerCorleone@kbin.social 39 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (4 children)

There is nothing dramatic about it. Defederating from problematic instances is nothing new for federated platforms.

[–] Gordon_Freeman@kbin.social 17 points 2 years ago (32 children)

Access to content should not be difficulted by puritan views. If people enjoy gore and create an instance about gore in movies showing very explicit (yet fictional) images of dismemberments and stuff in movies it should be banned too because is morally questionable?

If you can't distinguish between fiction and reality it should be a you problem not the whole instance you are inhabiting problem

What do you think about this? (sorry the article is in Spanish, but there is no English article)

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ni%C3%B1os_en_la_playa

It's a painting exposed in an important museum

[–] Flames5123@kbin.social 24 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Access to content should be based on LEGALITY though. And it turns out this is ILLEGAL in a lot of places.

[–] Gordon_Freeman@kbin.social 23 points 2 years ago (3 children)

Michelangelo's David is pornography in a lot of places. let's forbid it everywhere

[–] kat@lemmy.ca 13 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Let's flip that argument: should we all abide by American standards? After all, nudity is ok in a lot of places in the world, why should we blur chests?

Tons of countries ban underage looking things, even digital art of it. Countries with bans include Canada, Australia, the UK, France, South Korea, Ireland, Norway, etc.

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] HERRAX@lemmy.world 13 points 2 years ago

Why not just create a separate account for nsfw stuff? Why would you need it on the front page of your main account while scrolling anyways?

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] Otome-chan@kbin.social 20 points 2 years ago (3 children)

lgbt people are illegal in the middle east. should we ban lgbt people too?

[–] kat@lemmy.ca 21 points 2 years ago (6 children)

Underage fictional content is banned in first world countries like South Korea, Ireland, Norway, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and France. Do you really want to lump the very real discrimination that LGBTQ people face with someone's desire to get off to a 5 year old, sorry - 5000 year old school girl?

[–] Otome-chan@kbin.social 13 points 2 years ago (13 children)

loli/shota don't refer to underage fictional content.

I think this loli/shota hate can indeed lead to real oppression yes. I'm an adult, I look like a minor. Do you believe it should be illegal for me to send nsfw photos of myself to people? To have a relationship with another adult? simply because I look underage? This is the sort of thing we're talking about here. Should I be banned from posting pics of myself simply because of the way I look?

lemmynsfw already explicitly stated they ban underage content. so to bring up underage content is dishonest.

load more comments (13 replies)

load more comments (5 replies)

load more comments (2 replies)

[–] kat@lemmy.ca 12 points 2 years ago

Yeah even fictional suggestive content is illegal in Canada. And I'm glad!

[–] LollerCorleone@kbin.social 14 points 2 years ago (24 children)

I have no idea about the context of that painting, but I don't think the children are being sexualised in it. The under-age content that will be posted on lemmynsfw (fictional or not) will definitely be sexual in nature, and that is deeply problematic and might also be illegal in several countries. They can do whatever they want with their instance, but the users of kbin.social shouldn't have to be looking at such content.

load more comments (24 replies)

[–] wheresyourshoe@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago (3 children)

You can go make an account on porn instances or whatever for yourself. I have nsfw content blocked, and I blocked the community in question already. I'm not here for porn. There's a million other places you can get your porn.

load more comments (3 replies)

load more comments (29 replies)

[–] Otome-chan@kbin.social 15 points 2 years ago

this isn't problematic. there's literally nothing illegal about lemmynsfw. since there is nothing illegal on there, it's not problematic. that simple.

load more comments (2 replies)

[–] Izzent@lemmy.world 21 points 2 years ago

Calling it drama is like saying "both sides", it's dumb AF.

[–] Shortcake@kbin.social 14 points 2 years ago (1 children)

go to https://kbin.social/d/lemmynsfw.com and hit the block button if you don't want posts from there in your feed

load more comments (1 replies)

[–] asjmcguire@kbin.social 12 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Reading the comments.... that's not going to fly - literally no response in the comments is PRO this change.

[–] LollerCorleone@kbin.social 11 points 2 years ago (1 children)

But the instance owner has been acting pretty defensive about it, and seem to be going ahead with it.

load more comments (1 replies)

load more comments