this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2024
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Your comment is weirdly aggressive and is entirely predicated on the idea that we can't have any economic system other than the one where the ownership class and the working class are distinct.
The whole point of workers owning the means of production is that they will take on the risk as well as the reward. The belief in that idea conjoins with the belief that it shouldn't be possible to profit from the labour of others purely because you have money to start with. It's conjunctive with the belief that the investor class is surplus to requirements.
An argument against this is, how would we maintain productivity if no wealthy people were investing in new businesses or in reviving dying ones? There are entire industries that exist only to feed into this machine. This system, that claims to be only motivated by increasing productivity to increase profits, is only putting the brakes on human advancement and betterment of our quality of life. Advertising is, by many measures, the largest industry in the world. So much talent and effort is exerted on how best to sell people a product they don't need, an art form mostly now perfected to convince us we can't live without these things, all in the name of profit.
I'm not well read enough to say that I definitely believe that the world would be better if we enforced worker co-ops. There's so many other ways things could go wrong. I do think you need to open your mind to the fact that the systems we have in place exist only due to opportunism of those who came before us.
Yeah, sorry about that. I was imagining myself in those situations and offering my own reply to the supposed request of someone different taking the credit for my own hard work, while not taking any of the risks.
I feel like enough attempts and takes have been had at workers owning the means of production, by all communist states that have existed. And since they all had the inherent flaw that they are ran and populated by humans, they all end up in corrupt enterprises where there are still just a few sitting at the top, while the masses are fighting for scraps. Arguably the best implementation of it would probably be coops, but the people managing the coop are as susceptible to corruption as any other and are also likely to end in embezzlement/power trading.
Oh, I fully agree. However, I was literally a few months away from being born in a communist state. All my life I heard stories from my parents and grandparents about the small daily injustices they lived through. I'm 100% sure capitalism benefits a handful of people and the rest are suffering - but they're not suffering more than in communism, I'll say that much. People aren't disappearing from the streets if they criticize the CEO of coca cola. They don't get found years later in a government camp, or in another communist country, or not at all. You don't need to hide your comments about the head of state in a layer of fable-like obfuscation. You don't have to worry about if the friends you're joking around with will rat you out to the government because 1/10 of the population is recruited by the secret police, and even more are collaborators. For what it's worth, you have these small liberties under capitalism. I was almost on the other side of that line, and it really annoys the shit out of me when I see people who are only arguing in favor of communism from the safety of their capitalism-created life, unaware that if the situation was the opposite and they were a capitalist in a communist country, they couldn't even dream of making their pro-capitalist thoughts public for fear of their and their family's life.