Oh, that's right, that discourse doesn't even exist as the topic is framed exclusively in a racist and self-serving way. True Human Rights Violations only come from the nonwhite periphery region, everything else is just sparkling accidental collateral damage for Freedom and Democracy.

[+] JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works -9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Do you think China is more human rights focused and/or less racist than anywhere else in the world?

[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 19 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Certainly compared to the settler imperial core responsible for virtually every war and the racist status quo of systemic deprivation. It is not a serious discussion to imagine otherwise.

I kind of already said that.

[+] JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works -12 points 2 months ago (3 children)

We are comparing the current state of countries, yes? Do you think Norway for example currently has an imperialist settler core?

What would you call China's ambitions regarding the nine dash line and Taiwan if not imperialist?

[–] TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 21 points 2 months ago (1 children)

We are comparing the current state of countries, yes?

No because what I described is part of a systemic process and is ongoing, has precedent, and has its supporters for future depravity.

Do you think Norway for example currently has an imperialist settler core?

Norway is a subimperialist petrostate of the imperial core. It does the bidding of its masters. It is, primarily, irrelevant, but it does sometimes act as a hanger-on in militarism and it certainly loves to pump the price of oil, e.g. supporting American sanctions on Venezuela that CEPR estimated to kill tens of thousands yearly. But naturally, that skips Westerners' human rights discourse entirely, they pretend sanctions aren't civilian-targeted dispossession. In addition, Norway just uses loopholes to hide its role in weapons sales, including to Israel.

What would you call China's ambitions regarding the nine dash line and Taiwan if not imperialist?

Getting off-track, aren't you? Or in your mind would you declare any imperialism you can find a human rights violation? If so, hoo boy is my thesis correct.

I'll entertain those two questions when they can be seated coherently, I.E. we have resolved the actual topic and can discuss what imperialism is, as those questions suggest you don't know.

[–] REEEEvolution@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

The nine dash line is open to negotiations as recent ones with Vietnam have shown. "Taiwan", actually called the Republic of China, is the rump state of the losing side of the chinese civil war. It only exists because the US interfered. It considers itself China, the PRC considers it China. Only you ignorant people don't. It is a wholy internal matter of the chinese people.

There is no state called "Taiwan", get it already.

[–] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

What would you call China’s ambitions regarding the nine dash line and Taiwan if not imperialist?

holy shit crack a history book

like literally learn the first fucking thing about the situation

[–] freagle@lemmygrad.ml 20 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

95% approval rating of the government over 15 years (studied and reported by Harvard)

Multiple autonomous zones wherein a non-Han culture controls major aspects of society including religion, language, social norms, etc. Children are educated in their native tongues and official business is conducted in those languages. Compare this to language and religious erasure in the USA and Canada.

The protests in Hong Kong were violent... That is to say the protestors were throwing fire bombs at the police, but the police allowed the protests to rage for weeks and did not violently repress them. Compare this with the decades of police riots in the USA most recently the protests against racially-motivated extrajudicial killings by the police.

Greater home ownership rates in China than the USA or Canada. Lower homelessness rates in China than USA or Canada. Lower death rates from COVID in China.

The human rights to food, shelter, health, a government that responds to the needs of the people - all of these are better in China.

Child separation of immigrant families and use of solitary confinement on immigrants, including infants which causes permanent brain damage.

Apartheid and ghettoization domestically and support for apartheid and ghettoization globally.

That doesn't even get into the military. China lacks all of these, but they feature heavily in the USA:

CIA black sites in foreign countries used to torture and experiment on humans in violation of domestic and international law. They are in foreign countries to create legal ambiguities
material support for multiple genocides including domestic genocides
training death squads that murder entire families of indigenous and left-wing citizens throughout an entire continent
unilaterally pulling out of nuclear treaties
refusing to sign treaties against use of land mines
nuking 2 civilian populations
invading multiple sovereign nations and destroying all of their civilian infrastructure including power, water, and medical
embargoing and sanctioning dozens of countries with the explicit purpose of causing pain to civilians in hopes that they will rise up and overthrow their government (collective punishment)
use of chemical warfare on millions
spending enough money on weapons of war that the money could easily solve multiple systemic human problems including hunger, disease, homelessness, mental health epidemics, etc.

The USA has an absolutely abysmal human rights record compared to China.

[–] linkhidalgogato@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

people always compare Chinas percent of people who speak their native tongue to genocidal states like amerikkka and canada but honestly it compares very favorably to european countries too where minorities sometimes massive ones like the occitanians in france have experience a slow cultural genocide and most people seem not to care.

[–] GarbageShootAlt2@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

but the police allowed the protests to rage for weeks and did not violently repress them.

The HK cops absolutely were violent, it was just unfathomably better controlled than American cops, because they didn't kill a single person despite the huge scale of the protests and reasonably long time period. Literally the only living being who I have heard about their actions killing was a cat that got caught in teargas (whose owner brought it to the protests like a moron). Meanwhile the HK protestors, in a deliberate and targeted manner, immolated a civilian for aiding the police (I think he opened a gate for them or something), along with abuses that were less serious, like beating up the odd pro-mainland HK civilian or less-targeted, like when they negligently bricked that old man and he died.

Edit: I hope that's not just an incomprehensible pile of anecdotes.