Oh hey, also the same thing with environmental issues
this post was submitted on 08 Sep 2024
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But to take it a bit further, high capacity public infrastructure can go a long way towards improving the lives of low income working people.
Trains, buses, and subways can eliminate the need to own and maintain a car. Public housing can get people off the street, where they won't be at risk of harm from interpersonal violence or exposure to severe weather. Public education and public health care have more benefits than I could list.
At an individual level, "Just give people money" is an immediate and useful generic panacea. But at a more macro level, geographic access to grocery stores and clinics and colleges and bus stops and permanent homes and factories matter just as much.
Clearly, the Venn of those who're empowered to make those changes and those who've played at least a couple hours of SimCity is two estranged circles.
It needs to be quality of those things, as well. And they know this. It's designed to keep us too tired, broken physically and mentally to get off the wheel, and not just under it, either. There's enough for everyone, just some few want to hoard it like decades worth of paper, not because it may come in handy, just because bloodsport is still entertainment, no matter how well they dress it.
Oh absolutely. I have a bus stop on my corner, but it only picks up every 2 hours and then doesn't go to downtown.
Kropotkin was saying it over a century ago. Bread Book, baby.
People periodically ask how a country like Denmark or New Zealand or Japan can have such high standards of living relative to their individual incomes. Or why a country like the UK or Saudia Arabia can be so rich and yet appear so poor from a street level view.
So much boils down to who has access to quality infrastructure.
True enough. With apologies to mlk2, I may not get there with you, but I've seen it in my dreams. I hope we get there, with or without me. If you do, guard it vigilantly.
The real problem is zoning. If the density is high enough (and mixed-use enough), people can just fucking walk places whether you've got public transit or not!
Even in areas where we have zoned for dense real estate, we've built these four lane boulevards with barely a crosswalk between them.
At some level, we could use a little zoning. Pedestrianization isn't going to happen via the free market.
FTFY.
Money without a place to spend it isn't useful.
Where are we that Amazon won't deliver?
Anywhere without Internet, for starters.
6530 Starlink satellites in low earth orbit tell me that if there is such a location, it is not within the contiguous 48 states. If they have the money, there is an option for the Internet access. Giving them the money remains the solution.
Don't satellites require receivers?
As far as I know, connecting to the internet requires some kind of device or another. I don't know if any Internet access point that operates on telepathy.
One thing that all of those accessing devices have in common is that "money" is required to initially obtain them, and/or to maintain connectivity to the serving provider.
Even more important than "money" tends to be "electricity". Which is why public investment in cheaper and cleaner power sources is the baseline for any kind of urban development.
True, but largely irrelevant to the issue at hand: It turns out that "electricity" is yet another thing that a needy individual can acquire with "money".
Go out into the woods and buy some electricity.
Ok. Yet another problem that can be solved when the individual has a little money.
Despite this, I reject the premise of your argument: the predominant reason an impoverished person wouldn't have access to Internet isn't due to a lack of infrastructure. It is due to an inability to pay for it. The predominant reason an impoverished person wouldn't have access to electricity isn't due to a lack of infrastructure. It is due to a lack of ability to pay for it.
Currently, some 42 million Americans have no access to broadband, according to Broadband Now, a data technology company.
Well, that's a lie.
Starlink meets the definition of broadband, and is available to all of the US but the northernmost areas of Alaska. Since the population of that area is far less than 42 million, I'm calling bullshit.
You still need a receive to access Starlink. Ideally, a large capacity receiver, so you can capitalize on economy of scale.
That means you need electricity, and ideally some kind of commercial grade router, and some amount of IT staff capable of configuring access.
The existence of satellites is not sufficient to provide global broadband on its face.
You need some sort of device to access any internet service. Internet is not telepathically delivered.
Starlink has portable transceivers designed for RVs, and the service is available to latitudes below (and slightly above) 53° north. The receivers are not significantly different than cellular-based home internet modems.
Based on your comments, I don't think you actually understand what Starlink is.
It is truly amazing how a little "money" makes all of these poverty-related problems disappear.
Oh, I forgot: your argument that 42 million Americans don't have access to broadband does not imply that 42 million Americans lack access to the internet, Amazon, or other online retailers. Broadband != Internet. Broadband is defined as 25mbps download and 3mbps upload. Amazon is perfectly usable on a tiny fraction of that.
I'm not in the habit of defending @UnderpantsWeevil, but it's pretty clear that their point is that UBI cannot replace public infrastructure investment. You're not really arguing that it can and/or should, are you?
Dude told me to go out in the woods and buy electricity. That would be a relevant argument if people in the woods were poor. But the overwhelming majority of impoverished people live in urban environments, not the woods. Yeah, it's hard to get grid power run out to East Bumfuck Nowhere, but nobody living in East Bumfuck Nowhere wants to be connected to the grid. They all moved out there to dig a bomb shelter and wait for the apocalypse.
There is no shortage of electricity or Internet access in poor urban areas. The reason poor people might not have electricity or Internet access isn't because there is no Internet or electric infrastructure. The reason is because they can't fucking afford it.
I agree, public investment in infrastructure is important, but it is entirely irrelevant to the issue of poverty. The only point I would make about UBI and infrastructure is that if a large group of people have need for a "something", and they happen to have some money, someone is going to step in and try to exchange a "something" for their money.
The "public infrastructure" that most needs investment isn't all the shit that the people want. The most vital piece of "public infrastructure" is the people themselves. Give them the money and get out of their way.
No, the rest of that is also accurate info.
According to the meme, my response is supposed to be "Fuck you guys."
Personally, I'm a proponent of UBI. An economic system where everyone receives a small, regular income, automatically, no strings attached, no means testing, no limitations or requirements on how it is spent. That income should be enough to meet the individual's basic sustenance needs. Not enough to be comfortable, but enough that you would not need to rely on your savings if you were out of work for a few months. Enough that you can take a chance on better employment, starting a business, going back to school, without worrying about homelessness.
With our current system, you start off Monday morning below the poverty line, and 85% of us cross it before the end of day on Friday.
UBI says you cross the poverty line before you leave the house; every hour you work is for disposable income, not basic survival.
Yes, the solution really is "give them the money".
I really don't know why you've got so few upvotes, and equitable down votes, because this is great and succinct.
Here’s some emphasis for you. “Give them money” is a part of the solution, but it can only go so far when they lack access to places to spend that money. And no, delivery is not a real solution. It’s a very expensive bandaid.
Places to spend it are pointless until they have money to spend. But if they have money to spend, people are going to come and try to get it, and they will be bringing the infrastructure with them. You don't have to build it; it will build itself once the people have money to spend.
First, there are more than enough resources to tackle multiple issues at a time. Just because the money is the more important aspect doesn’t mean we can’t also invest in things to improve people’s quality of life.
Second, this:
Is probably the most ridiculous rebuttal you could have come up with. People will bring the infrastructure with them? It will build itself? Where the hell do you think these things come from?
Yes.
Where people need food and have money, someone builds a produce stand, a convenience store, a grocery store, a supermarket, whatever other infrastructure the consumer base will support in their quest to do business. They want the money the consumers have, so businesspeople build the places where consumers can spend their money.
But business only works when consumers actually have money. When they don't have any money, nobody is interested in supplying them with goods and services, and nothing gets built.
Put the money in their pockets, and watch businesspeople trip over themselves to sell them shit.