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Do you think the world would have been a better place if there were no religions? (programming.dev)

submitted 4 months ago by Timely_Jellyfish_2077@programming.dev to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml

74 comments fedilink hide all child comments

I'm having conflicting thoughts about religion in shaping human history.

As an atheist, it seems obvious to me that if there were no religion from the start, the world would have been a better place than it is now. There would be no religious wars, honor killings, more freedom, no religious leaders abusing their powers, no waste of labor and money on religious things, etc. It may seem that we would be more educated and have better understanding.

My whole conflict arises from the fact that "fear is a better driver than education and reasoning." As no system is efficient and perfect, the absence of religion would have caused more crimes. Religion promotes fear (the concept of an afterlife, hell) if you do something wrong. If there were no religion, humans may have committed numerous crimes without fearing consequences. You could say that it is due to religions that numerous wars have happened in history. But that is a tiny percentage of the whole population. Most people lived happier with religion as it introduced morals ,ethics and consequences for wrongdoing(big factor). One would think and question before doing something wrong.

You could also say that if we were non-religious from the start, we would have had better education, reasoning, different type ethics and morals etc. But as I said earlier, no system is efficient, and since non-religion doesn't promote fear if you don't get caught by others, there would be more crimes without fearing consequences if they don't get caught by others, which was easy in the old days.

So, I'm thinking if religion did better in the early days.

And I know that nowadays it's a different story, and non-religion is obviously better.

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[–] MagicShel@programming.dev 35 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

I'm an atheist, and obviously a lot of evil things have been done in the name of religion, but I think there are some incredible things that have resulted from it, too.

People were given solace in times of sorrow. They were given a hope for justice in times of tyranny. The art of the Sistine Chapel, or Buddhist temples, or incredible songs that resonate because of their religious imagery. You wouldn't have Hallelujah or Spirit in the Sky, and on the other hand you wouldn't have Imagine - or at least it would hit different. Some addicts rely on it to help them fight addictions.

Some religious traditions helped with sanitation and preventing the spread of disease in a time when we didn't have other tools to make people understand.

So in the end I think religion has done and continues to do tremendous harm and is mostly an evil force, but there are some incredibly beautiful and important things that came from it that are worth celebrating.

[–] roadrunner_ex@lemmy.ca 16 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I want to add to this. I'm not a psychologist, but I have heard a couple times about the term "third place". It's this concept that most people have a "place where they live", a "place where they work", and then a "place where they socialize". It has been theorized that the modern working-age population is having trouble with stress and mental health in large part due to the dearth of "third places".

The "third place" can be, for example, a restaurant or bar that you frequent (think the pub from the TV show Cheers), a book club, a sports club, or, crucially, a church or place of worship.

For Christianity at least, knowing that you were going to see and socialize with the same group of people (who share at least 1 major interest in common with you) every Sunday is apparently quite good for mental health. So, although I am no proponent of certain Western religions in general, I do think their decline has contributed to some of the mental health crises. How much? I cannot say.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place

[–] MagicShel@programming.dev 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

That's a really good point. Lemmy has sort of become my Third Space and Reddit before that. I moved away from home for 5 years then moved back and then covid hit. I haven't had anyone to hang out and socialize with other than my wife and kids in a long time.

I used to be active in the kink community and we'd go to munches, which were really just a bunch of people united by a sort of bohemian stance towards sexuality getting together and talking about mostly anything else. Religion or secularism was mostly irrelevant. I really miss the kink community for that reason more than anything, you know, particularly deviant. But also being transgressive was fun, too.

Online just doesn't hit the same.

[–] newnton@sh.itjust.works 6 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Fun fact, spirit in the sky was made by a Jewish man who just liked the sound of gospel music and didn’t believe any of it. White Christmas is similar, Irving Berlin was also Jewish.

Sometimes creative people just want to make good art and in largely religious societies they can make their art more relatable or consumable by incorporating that religion

Edit to add: Michelangelo never even wanted to paint the Sistine Chapel ceiling. He … made it clear from the start that he resented the commission, which had been imposed upon him by the imperious and demanding “warrior pope”, Julius II.

Some absolutely beautiful things have been made in the name of religion, but underneath that I believe you see the beauty and creativity that the human spirit is capable of shine through, and those amazing people deserve credit much more than an invisible sky man or hierarchical power structure for supposedly inspiring it

[–] MagicShel@programming.dev 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Spirit in the Sky goes so hard with that riff. Definitely one of my favorite songs to roll the windows down and drive too fast to. Thanks for the fun fact!

[–] newnton@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Oh absolutely, it’s such a good one. You put it perfectly, one of my favorite things was listening to it while driving these twisty country roads near my grandparents house when I was younger ( a little faster than I should :P )

Edit: spelling