this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2024
40 points (95.5% liked)

Selfhosted

40296 readers
229 users here now

A place to share alternatives to popular online services that can be self-hosted without giving up privacy or locking you into a service you don't control.

Rules:

  1. Be civil: we're here to support and learn from one another. Insults won't be tolerated. Flame wars are frowned upon.

  2. No spam posting.

  3. Posts have to be centered around self-hosting. There are other communities for discussing hardware or home computing. If it's not obvious why your post topic revolves around selfhosting, please include details to make it clear.

  4. Don't duplicate the full text of your blog or github here. Just post the link for folks to click.

  5. Submission headline should match the article title (don’t cherry-pick information from the title to fit your agenda).

  6. No trolling.

Resources:

Any issues on the community? Report it using the report flag.

Questions? DM the mods!

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

I have been using Nextcloud for over a year now. Started with it on Bare Metal, switched to the basic Docker Container and Collabora in its own Container. That was tricky to get running nicely. Now I have been using Nextcloud AIO for a couple of Months and am pretty happy. But it feels a little weird with all those Containers and all that overhead.

How do you guys host NC + Collabora? Some easy and best Solution?

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] u_tamtam@programming.dev 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I don’t care […] because it’s in the container or stack and doesn’t impact anything else running on the system.

This is obviously not how any of this works: down the line those stacks will very much add-up and compete against each other for CPU/memory/IO/…. That's inherent to the physical nature of the hardware, its architecture and the finiteness of its resources. And here come the balancing act, it's just unavoidable.

You may not notice it as the result of having too much hardware thrown at it, I wouldn't exactly call this a winning strategy long term, and especially not in the context of self-hosting where you directly foot the bill.

Moreover, those server components which you are needlessly multiplying (web servers, databases, application runtimes, …) have spent decades optimizing for resource pooling (with shared buffers, caching, event scheduling, …). These efforts are all thrown away when run for a single client/container further lowering (and quite drastically at that) the headroom for optimization and scaling.

[–] schizo@forum.uncomfortable.business 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Two things, I think, that are making your view and mine different.

First, the value of time. I like self-hosting things, but it's not a 40 hour a week job. Docker lets me invest minimal time in maintenance and upkeep and restricts the blowback of a bad update to the stack it's in. Yes, I'm using a little bit more hardware to accomplish this, but hardware is vastly cheaper than my time.

Second, uh, this is a hobby yeah? I don't think anyone posting here needs to optimize their Nextcloud or whatever install to scale to 100,000 concurrent users that required 99.999999% uptime SLAs or anything. I mean yes, you'd certainly do things differently in those environments, but that's really not what this is.

Using containers simplifies maintaining and deploying, and a few percent of cpu usage or a little bit of ram is unlikely to matter, unless you're big into running everything on a Raspberry Pi Zero or something.

[–] u_tamtam@programming.dev 1 points 4 months ago

I don't think our views are so incompatible, I just think there are two conflictual paradigms supporting a false dichotomy: one that's prevalent in the business world where "cost of labour shrinks cost of hardware" and where it's acceptable to trade some (= a lot of) efficiency for convenience/saving manhours. But this is the "self-hosted" community, where people are running things on their own hardware, often in their own house, paying the high price of inefficiency very directly (electricity costs, less living space, more heat/noise, etc).

And docker is absolutely fine and relevant in this space, but only when "done right", i.e. when containers are not just spun up as isolated black boxes, but carefully organized as to avoid overlapping services and resources wastage, in which case managing containers ends-up requiring more effort, not less.

But this is absolutely not what you suggest. What you suggest would have a much greater wastage impact than "few percent of cpu usage or a little bit of ram", because essentially you propose for every container to ship its own web server, application server, database, etc… We are no longer talking "few percent" of overhead of the container stack, we are talking "whole new machines" software and compute requirements.

So, in short, I don't think there's a very large overlap between the business world throwing money at their problems and the self-hosting community, and so the behaviours are different (there's more than one way to use containers, and my observation is that it goes very differently in either). I'm also not hostile to containers in general, but they cannot be recommended in good faith to self-hosters as a solution that is both efficient and convenient (you must pick one).