Of course, now they've figured out that the PRC gives them a better deal and they can break off 1 chain of imperialism. The 2nd chain is much harder to break. That one as you know is laced with spikes as the DPRK, Vietnam and other socialist nations can tell you.
TeethOrCoat
joined 4 years ago
The loans aren't a one time thing. If a hypothetical 3rd world country refuses to meet the terms or defaults, the IMF will simply cut them off.
Ok now that I've answered this question for you, I'll provide the next lines of questioning. What I'm doing is I'm asking questions over and over again, each time trying to get us both deeper into the root of issues like this.
Why then, would they even need the loan in the first place?
Answer: Because they lack the money to do what they want to do.
What do they want to do?
Answer: Develop, become rich, so they can feed, house, clothe their people.
Why do these things require money? Just fucking do them.
Answer: They lack the natural resources and the technology since they've been plundered by the imperialists. The best way to acquire them now is via trade and to do trade with the global market requires money AKA participating in capitalism.
It’s in the terms of the loans.
Ok, so why not spit on the terms? Take the money and ignore everything else the IMF says.
Well I'm not actually disagreeing with anything you've said so far. I'm just asking in a rhetorical way to make a point.
Anyway, why do they have to restructure? Why not just take the loan and then give the IMF the finger if they wanna collect? Actually, why even take the damn loans in the first place?
I don't think you understand what I'm saying. I'm not asking so many questions because I'm ignorant. I'm attempting to herd you towards a certain train of thought.
You mentioned this earlier with regards to toppling the US:
Or something like the global south freeing itself from imperialist chains
And then later you mentioned this with regards to 3rd world liberation:
help in the transfer of knowledge that would enable the downtrodden nations especially the ones in Africa and Middle East to cast off the chains of IMF debt traps and of the hyper-specialised industrial bases that come with it and able to achieve the basic requirements of self-sustenence like food security.
How does the latter point achieve the former point? How would casting off IMF debt traps free a country from imperialism?
Right, but my point was, why even bother with the IMF? Just say fuck it and do what Sankara did.
Sure, but your answers don't really get to the root of the issues. Why are these countries bourgeois states? Why are they aligned with NATO? Why DON'T they have the political will?
The reason I see this as the more important factor is that anti-war movements of all flavours in the USA have not been able to achieve much
I wasn't talking about anti-war movements though. I was referring to a case of US collapse where logistical support would be cut off from the military, forcing a withdrawal. In other words, material action. Let's be honest, peaceful protesting and anti-war marches of the like are ultimately just noise to an uncaring ruling class.
downtrodden nations especially the ones in Africa and Middle East to cast off the chains of IMF debt traps and of the hyper-specialised industrial bases that come with it and able to achieve the basic requirements of self-sustenence like food security.
Why do you think they haven't done this yet? Why would they even need the aid of the PRC in the first place?
One thing I haven't seen articulated too often is what has to come first. Does the US have to fall before imperialism is stopped (the intuitive position) or does imperialism have to stop before the US falls (the not so intuitive position)? Here you are making the case that the US cannot see a change unless imperialism stops but also, how will imperialism ever stop if the US does not change?
Many American left movements watch their tone as to not offend the White working masses of America and in doing so play in the hands of the bourgeoisie.
And here we run into a giant contradiction. How then will the American left movement ever reach a point where they might take power without the support of said white working mass?
Maybe they're doing good work irl? I presume you live in the US? What have you heard about SAlt beyond them just being trots?