General Discussion for politics in the UK.
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!ukpolitics@lemm.ee appears to have vanished! We can still see cached content from this link, but goodbye I guess! :'(
Conservative members chose Liz Truss as leader too. It's really not a good look.
The real problem for the Conservatives is just how far their membership has diverged from the mainstream of British society. Post Brexit entryism from UKIP supporters has left the Conservative Party in real trouble.
I’m ok with any ideas like this the Tories have to become unelectable in my lifetime.
I think they should split.
I think Labour should split.
I think we should have fringe loonies on the right, fringe loonies on the left, and a sensible forward thinking centre ground group of parties that represents the majority of the electorate. Doesn't have to be a single centrist party, but a group that can align on most things.
But that would never happen under FPTP. 😢
Centre doesn't mean inherently correct, it also doesn't mean forward. That's a frankly naive view of politics if it's what you genuinely believe.
It doesn't, correct. But my point is that the centre ground has to compromise more because of their very nature. It's inherently less extreme that the far right or far left. Literally by definition.
Whilst there is a danger that "nothing gets done" in a coalition of the centre ground (which I think your poo meme is getting at?) I think the dialogue and willingness to accept compromise is better there. I'd rather have a government and politics on that basis than extreme lurches to the left and right with zero room for compromise if you're not in one group or the other.
So no, it's not a silver bullet. You're right. But that's just where I'd rather be. PR as the form of government election voting in the UK and then to fill the house with a true representation of the country, which I don't believe is as extreme as the current system portrays it.
where do you see the extreme Left manifest itself in British politics?
Mostly at council level. Momentum (and I don't think they'd mind that badge). Recent choice words by Labour councillors. It's thankfully not the norm anymore but it's there.
have you got some examples?
Momentum (and I don't think they'd mind that badge).
I think by their own definition they're very far left, no?
Recent choice words by Labour councillors. It's thankfully not the norm anymore but it's there.
You only have to watch the news to hear Labour councillors being caught glorifying far left tropes about Jewish people and Israel.
Neil Kinnock and Anas Sawar was on the news yesterday berating George Galloway, for example. Even Labour acknowledge want nothing to do with that side of things.
Thankfully these fringe elements are being pushed to the fringe, but they have no place in Labour.... in my opinion.
Compromise is not what is needed, progress is what is needed. You want to maintain a broken status quo with a prettier face
Compromise is not what is needed, progress is what is needed
The two aren't mutually exclusive.
Yes they are. Compromising with the side that support status quo is inherently against progress
Yes they are. Compromising with the side that support status quo is inherently against progress
Forgive me but that's a straw man argument. Why assume that parties in the centre want the status quo? That's not what left, right, and centre politics means.
Centrists are opposed to capitalism now?
Eh? 😂 Did I say that? Sorry I'm totally lost now. Care to explain?
Capitalism is the status quo. Progress is wanting to replace it
Riiiiight. 👍
He's right, they absolutely would.
And maybe that should trigger a reflection on the part of those Tories, that their party has lurched from very right wing to fascist-adjacent.
member noun [C] (BODY PART) formal a penis: the male member
Yeah, probably right then.
Is Farage actually any more economically right wing than Sunak?
If you think about how far removed they are from the average citizen, it's just a difference in the number of zeroes.
UK Median net worth is £305,000
Farage comes in at around £4,000,000 (13x)
Sunak comes in at around £730,000,000 (2393x)
(Figures from Kagi that seemed reasonable, can post sources if people would like to check)
Both are at the point where they could never work another day in their life, and still live happily.
Compared to an average person who expects to work until they are 75.
I was more talking policy wise, but bloody hell Sunak makes Farage look almost working class.
Sunak's wife makes sunak look working class, that figure is mostly her.
I'm not trying to pick holes in the post, its fair to combine them, but also fair to know that it is mostly from his wife.
Ironic really, he's head of a right wing bootstrap business party and all his achievements are dwarfed into irrelevance by the inherited wealth of his wife
You Kagi users are being paid to shil.
I'm definitely not. No idea if other people have cut some sort of deal.
I'm paying £20ish a month for it.
And we even considered paying for their api to do story summaries here (we decided that for now it wasn't efficient use of donations).
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Nigel Farage has said Conservative members would choose him as their leader over Rishi Sunak, after Reform UK had its best ever by-elections.
Mr Farage, Reform's honorary president, said he would "have to" eventually end up in the same party as Conservative MPs like Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg.
Mr Farage told BBC Radio 4's The World at One: "I think if you ask Tory party members right now they'd vote for me to be leader and not Rishi Sunak."
And he insisted there was "zero prospect" repeating the Brexit Party's 2019 deal with the Conservatives - which saw them withdraw candidates in hundreds of Tory target seats - to help keep Labour out of power.
Speaking after the by-elections, former cabinet minister Sir Jacob said the Conservatives needed to focus on appealing to voters who had turned to Reform, adding that there was "a lot of common ground" between the two parties.
BBC analysis of major opinion polls shows a marked increase in the party's support in recent months to an average of 10%, nearly double where it stood last year.
The original article contains 570 words, the summary contains 180 words. Saved 68%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Yep. All twelve of them.