this post was submitted on 12 Feb 2024
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[–] davel@lemmy.ml 57 points 9 months ago (2 children)
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[–] Adkml@hexbear.net 56 points 9 months ago

Of all the things libs think is a sales pitch to vote for Biden "you have to vote for Biden or America's global influence will decrease and other countries will realize were an unreliable and antagonistic ally" is probably their worst

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 48 points 9 months ago

Europeans realizing they're not America's core interest after spending two years talking up a war with Russia is never going to stop being hilarious.

[–] aaaaaaadjsf@hexbear.net 45 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

I mean under Biden the US bombed Nordstream and is attempting to vassalise the EU through the Ukraine war. I don't think the president matters that much, the US will continue to act in its own interests regardless of who the president is

[–] 420blazeit69@hexbear.net 34 points 9 months ago (4 children)

I think U.S. allies had long since internalized that they would occasionally have to eat shit from the U.S. The bargain was a place as a vassal state instead of a target, and if those are your choices being a vassal state has a lot of appeal. The occasional overt screwjob is much less damaging than a constant destabilization effort.

The deal will continue to get worse under any U.S. president, but what they seem to be getting at here is the possibility of it getting torn up altogether, opening the door for more direct U.S. hostility. As long as they support NATO they aren't likely to be the target of a coup like the 2014 one in Ukraine, but what if NATO is gone?

Trump isn't going to be allowed to unilaterally withdraw from NATO on a whim, but he could do a lot of damage to it, and he can rile up the reactionary hogs against it, which would at least lay the groundwork for a still more impactful change.

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[–] Digital_Prophet@kbin.social 42 points 9 months ago

"Becoming" less reliable.

[–] Alsephina@lemmy.ml 34 points 9 months ago (80 children)

As if it even matters which shitty imperialist party is in power lol

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[–] Fishroot@hexbear.net 31 points 9 months ago

Allies fear the US is becoming less reliable, with growing concern over a possible Trump return

[–] FuckyWucky@hexbear.net 27 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

The first Trump administration stress-tested the bonds between the U.S. and its allies, particularly in Europe. Trump derided the leaders of some friendly nations, including Germany’s Angela Merkel and Britain’s Theresa May, while praising authoritarians such as Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and Russian leader Vladimir Putin. He has called China’s Xi Jinping “brilliant” and Hungary’s Viktor Orbán “a great leader.”

This is so stupid. Trump was the one who started a trade war with China. Him praising Xi doesn't mean shit.

Secondly, despite claiming to be anti-west, Erdogan and Orban are both pro-West allies and will fall in line under pressure. Both countries are NATO members too btw. Why is such a democratic organization like NATO having "authoritarian" countries as members?

Also why is there no mention of Modi? Both Biden and Trump have been more than friendly with him.

Trump's Israel policy is no different. He is more belligerent towards Iran.

In campaign speeches, Trump remains skeptical of organizations such as NATO, often lamenting the billions the U.S. spends on the military alliance whose support has been critical to Ukraine’s fight against Russia’s invasion.

Rhetoric and actions are entirely different. Trump knows very well that Ukraine War is ultimately beneficial for the U.S. and the MIC.

Another thing to keep in mind, U.S. is NATO, without the U.S there is no NATO.

He warned: “We must realize that the EU cannot be an economic and civilizational giant and a dwarf when it comes to defense, because the world has changed.”

That has been the status of Europe since end of cold war, a puppet of American capitalism, nothing more. And nothing will change unless there is a socialist revolution or something.

[–] BurgerPunk@hexbear.net 20 points 9 months ago

Rhetoric and actions are entirely different

Yes, but libs can't tell a difference. They don't even need different rhetoric, just tone usually.

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[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 27 points 9 months ago

Oh it doesn't matter man, Trump, Biden's draugr, Kamala, not important. This goose is cooked and you're all cooked with it if you don't sever ties. We saw what happened to Europe's oil, energy and manufacturing sector with just a couple well-placed underwater bombs. The American bourgeois state will eat all of it's "allies" like Saturn and his children if it means staving off profit collapse for one more quarter .

[–] GenderIsOpSec@hexbear.net 26 points 9 months ago (1 children)

yanks have never been reliable allies, just ask the people they left in Afganistan as one of the more recent examples shrug-outta-hecks

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[–] Varyk@sh.itjust.works 26 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (2 children)

Why the heck and when was the United States considered reliable?

Reliable in what context?

Oh I see defensively reliable.

It might not make a lot of sense to overwhelmingly rely your national defense on a partner separated by an ocean.

I'm glad the EU is taking more responsibility for their own defense, and I'm also surprised to see so many European leaders acting surprised that they should have to, or the idea of a European defense as a novel idea.

[–] regul@lemm.ee 56 points 9 months ago (17 children)

The US was considered reliable because, until Trump, both parties had identical foreign policy.

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[–] BustinJiber@lemmy.world 19 points 9 months ago (3 children)

It's going to be this way every election, ain't it? Basically two year election cycle of Trump once again running, all the fears of him winning, then he looses, and we get next 4 years of him talking shit and "raising concerns".

[–] lemmyvore@feddit.nl 45 points 9 months ago (8 children)

It's not about Trump (the dude may not even live much longer, he looks awful).

It's about all the people who support his values and way of thinking and use him as a distraction while they erode democratic rights and processes. America is undergoing a tremendous divide which may lead to the federation coming apart and individual states breaking away. That's what's worrying the rest of us, not the POTUS making a fool of himself on TV.

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[–] ChairmanSpongebob@hexbear.net 19 points 9 months ago
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