this post was submitted on 28 Jan 2024
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submitted 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) by wwwgem@lemmy.ml to c/linux@lemmy.ml
 

Hello fellows,

I'm currently looking in 13-14" laptops with no immediate needs for one but just because it's exciting. I love my Dell XPS but I feel I should support companies with which I share more common views. I could make the effort to go a with a less attractive look (especially for bezels) but I don't want to go wrong with hardware so what are your thoughts on Framework, Starlab, Purism, and System76? I'll be running Arch and I tend to have a preference for Framework for now.

Do you have feedback (positive and negative) to share on any of these companies?

Thanks for the knowledge you'll bring me. That'll be extremely useful when time comes to go with a new machine.

Update 1: Still wonderful to be part of such a great community. Thanks for all the great feedback (looking for more :) ).
So far everyone is standing behind Framework. Anyone with a less positive experience or who would like to speak for the other companies?

Update 2: Thank you fellows for the time you've spent to share your honest feedback! I didn't want to influence your inputs but you all confirmed the Framework picture I had in mind. It's a piece of mind to read real world experience so thanks again. I was surprised to not see the system76 community speaks louder. Anyway, when time comes I will (virtually) push Framework shop's door.

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[–] Pogogunner@kbin.social 57 points 10 months ago (4 children)

I have a framework, pretty happy with it - Arch installed without any hitches and runs well. Only downside is how long it took to go from deposit to actually paying/shipping.

[–] SpiceDealer@lemmy.world 22 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I've been wanting a Framework so bad. When I start working again (which should be soon), I'm going to save up for one.

[–] wwwgem@lemmy.ml 19 points 10 months ago

The modularity, repairability, and price for specs are what attracts me compared to the other companies mentioned in this post.

[–] shertson@lemmy.world 17 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I love my Framework. It may not feel as polished physically as the XPS. If you can find one in the wild to touch and try, I would recommend doing so.

[–] wwwgem@lemmy.ml 10 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

They're unfortunately harder to find in the wild than pokemons 😂 Have you experienced long delivery time as mentioned above?

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[–] wwwgem@lemmy.ml 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

How long have you been waiting? Was it during the pandemic (when everyone was using this as an excuse)? Do you know if it seems to be a current issue?

[–] Pogogunner@kbin.social 7 points 10 months ago (7 children)

Ordered on August 2nd, Shipped November 17th of 2023

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[–] JoeyJoeJoeJr@lemmy.ml 34 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (4 children)

I currently have a System76 laptop, and sincerely regret my purchase. When I purchased it, the Framework was not out yet - I wanted to support a company that supports right-to-repair, and figured since they controlled the hardware, firmware, and software (Pop!_OS), it would be a good, stable experience. It has not been, and support has generally been poor. I know other people have had better experiences than I have, but personally, I won't be buying from them again.

I haven't personally used Purism, but former co-workers spoke really poorly of them. They were trying to buy a big batch for work, and said the build quality was awful. Additionally: https://youtu.be/wKegmu0V75s

[–] cevn@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I have one problem with my s76, the usb c port rly sucks. Other than that the laptop runs very well but something so simple shouldnt be an issue imo there are some build quality issues going on..

[–] JoeyJoeJoeJr@lemmy.ml 5 points 10 months ago (2 children)

My usb-c ports can be a little touchy, too. The SD card slot is also really bad - the card has to be positioned perfectly to slide in, or it jams. I'm also upset that the usb-c port can only be used for charging after a full boot. It cannot be used to perform firmware updates, or even to do a ram test. This means day-to-day, usb-c can be used, but I have to keep track of the barrel charger, just in case. This, of course, was not specified on the product details page (nor, I think, that only one of the two usb-c ports could be used for charging - it's possible I overlooked that, but still frustrating on an expensive laptop that lists usb-c charging as a feature).

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[–] wwwgem@lemmy.ml 6 points 10 months ago

Thanks very much for this important feedback. Framework is definitely taking the lead in responses to this post.

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[–] just_another_person@lemmy.world 30 points 10 months ago (2 children)
[–] wwwgem@lemmy.ml 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)
[–] BaldProphet@kbin.social 5 points 10 months ago (15 children)

If you drop it and break the frame you can easily replace it.

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[–] Petter1@lemm.ee 26 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Since it was not mentioned yet: https://www.tuxedocomputers.com/en

If I would not get so many old computing devices that fulfill my needs (I don’t game on PC/Linux) I guess I’d buy one of those. I live in Switzerland and having a german company for support would be superior to me. And I heard that build quality should be great 😇 😂I guess I’d really like to have one, but as I said, for my needs, my macbookpro5,3 running arch does the job.

[–] superbirra@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

can confirm that tuxedo is great if you are in Europe. It has been my daily driver for 3 years with debian sid and it's great!

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[–] refreeze@lemmy.world 24 points 10 months ago (6 children)

Framework. I've run Debian, Fedora and for a while now NixOS, all of which have worked flawlessly.

I did have to replace the heatsink/fan part on mine because the fan bearing started clicking, but I'm sure that was just a first generation product issue (I was one of the first batches). I was glad to be able to do the replacement myself at relatively low cost and the process couldn't have been easier (took about 30 minutes).

My previous machine was a 2013-ish ThinkPad X series and the Framework absolutely blows it out of the water. I'm looking forward to upgrading mine to a Ryzen motherboard sometime in the not so distant future.

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[–] peanutbutter_gas@lemm.ee 20 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I have a framework laptop and endeavour os with gnome de. I've had no problems with it. I mainly use it for dev work and web browsing. I enabled gnome muli-gesture (basically the same gestures on a Mac trackpad). I've had no problems with that either.

I'd recommend it.

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[–] Revan343@lemmy.ca 18 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I'm a fan of refurbished ThinkPads myself, but that is mostly for money reasons. If I had money to blow, I would probably also buy a Framework

[–] wwwgem@lemmy.ml 7 points 10 months ago

Framework also has an outlet, just in case you want to take a look ;)

[–] SpiceDealer@lemmy.world 17 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (6 children)

While I'm yet to do it myself, I would suggest getting a Thinkpad T480 and upgrading its RAM. The reason you want a T480 is because it was the last Thinkpad to have user removable parts. One tip: when using eBay, make sure you filter out the T480s. The T480s is not the same as the T480 since it doesn't have user removable parts.

[–] Bitrot@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Second the T480, it's a great Linux laptop and very upgradable. If possible try to make sure it already has an NVMe or SATA M.2 in the main drive bay. Switching from a 2.5 requires an adapter board and different cables.

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[–] wwwgem@lemmy.ml 6 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Thanks for the tip. I know a lot of people are going for Thinkpads and you're specific recommendation may seem interesting but I'd like to support other companies like the ones I bought from so far (Toshiba, Lenovo, Dell, Vaio, Acer, PB, Razer) and I'd also like to build my own laptop from the start.

[–] SpiceDealer@lemmy.world 12 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Of course. Just remember this when buying a laptop (and by extension a printer): FUCK HP!

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[–] SheeEttin@programming.dev 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I hate Lenovo and I have a Lenovo laptop. The company is shit but the laptops are great. I justify it by buying used.

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[–] murvillian@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

What parts other than one stick of RAM aren't upgradeable on the t480s? The processor? I've seen screen swaps, touchpad swaps, keyboard, just about everything. I got one back in the summer, added a stick of RAM to get up to 16gb, it's running at 3200mhz like the other one, and swapped in a new OEM battery. It's been great. I also recently bought a e495 for around 60 bucks, it's thicker and plastic-ey, but also a solid Linux machine running an AMD CPU. Are the newer t14s really that crippled in repairability?

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[–] teawrecks@sopuli.xyz 17 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I had a System76 10 years ago. The customer service was excellent (several months after receiving my laptop, they sent me a replacement keyboard, because they didn't like the one it shipped with). The build quality was meh, it was a plastic body and didn't hold up well to wear and tear, but it's in my closet and still works. I haven't tried their aluminum bodies.

I now have a Framework. It arrived with trackpad issues, and one of the HDMI adapters didn't work at all. They shipped me replacements for both at no cost to me (except time). It's been nice knowing that any other issues I do have can be replaced piecewise. Also I like that the webcam/mic have physical kill switches.

[–] wwwgem@lemmy.ml 10 points 10 months ago

Very nice to read this feedback. I'm very sold to Framework after all the great things posted here. An impeccable customer support like the one you describe means a lot about a company.

[–] nickiam2@aussie.zone 16 points 10 months ago (3 children)

I've had a framework for 2 years now. It's run fedora, manjaro (arch based) and Debian with no major issues. Manjaro had some problems with KDE and the high DPI screen. Sometimes the scaling was inconsistent between apps. Fedora just works.

Only hardware issue is the battery life is just not that great. And the trackpad doesn't always work property, but I think that was a first generation issue that's been resolved since.

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[–] maness300@lemmy.world 12 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I would try to avoid any kind of brand-loyalty.

Find something that meets your specifications and try it out for yourself. If it works, keep it. If it doesn't, return it.

Just about every retailer has guaranteed returns for 30 days on computers.

Check out https://old.reddit.com/r/LaptopDeals/ daily until you find something that meets your needs and budget.

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[–] NikkiNikkiNikki@kbin.social 12 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

They're all aight, but avoid asus like the plague, they don't last very long and have tons of incompatibilities with linux. I've only had mine for 3 years and it already needs a new mobo as the pci lanes for wifi and bluetooth suddenly died

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[–] Falcon@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Framework and ThinkPad have both been a really positive experience.

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[–] TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml 9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Mainstream? Avoid anything other than Lenovo ThinkPads. Rather than trying to buy the freshest budget model, try for 1-2 generations old T serie flagship, or even L serie. Search <modelname> PSREF and check if a WWAN M.2 slot is available, so you can buy a $30 2230/2242 SSD for Windows, and make your machine have both Linux and Windows. ThinkPads have the best aftersales support and third party parts support, with open schematics and warranty that allows user tinkering.

Other boutique Linux catering brand options are already discussed so pointless.

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[–] naeap@sopuli.xyz 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Anyone have some experience with StarLabs?

Ordered a StarFighter like more than half a year ago and am losing confidence in the company...

[–] wwwgem@lemmy.ml 5 points 10 months ago (2 children)
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[–] Pantherina@feddit.de 8 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Novacustom or System76, they actually use open Firmware.

[–] wwwgem@lemmy.ml 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Novacustom... Never heard of it. The almost insignificant disadvantage I can see so far for Framework is that they don't use open-source boot. Everyone so far stand behind Framework. How would you sell me on System76 or Novacustom?

[–] Pantherina@feddit.de 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Framework tried Coreboot, has problems and gave up. When buying a Laptop with coreboot you support open Firmware Development for all CPUs, many board generations etc.

Just look at 3mdeb's Dasharo guide. Its nearly as secure as Heads, on a modern Laptop!

[–] sorrybookbroke@sh.itjust.works 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Not true, firstly 'framework' never tried Coreboot they have provided boards to coreboot devs however, who've had issues including accidentally bricking the board. New boards have been shipped, and the origional fixed. They haven't given up though completely and the work is still being done. There was a recent talk that had to be canceled due to the speaker getting sick on this subject. Work is likely still being done, but is slow, and will continue to be so.

Still though, there's no evidence that framework has ever had or ever will have the intention of including core-boot by default. They're simply supporting coreboot devs to make it compatable

The reasoning for why the others have it is likely due to system76 and nova customs using mostly generic parts like the shell and motherboard along with being around longer. It's great to support a company that's ensuring coreboot works on their system however and pushing towards a non-proprietary future

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[–] pr06lefs@lemmy.ml 8 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Personally I'm holding out for a laptop based on the snapdragon elite X arm chips coming out later this year. Should be great for battery life (like 28 hours) and very fast. We'll see how the linux support turns out. And also which manufacturers pick it up - would like framework but haven't heard anything about that from them. Lenovo already released a system based on the old snapdragon chip so seems likely they'll release one based on the elite X too.

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[–] FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world 7 points 10 months ago (6 children)
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[–] sorrybookbroke@sh.itjust.works 7 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (5 children)

If you're willing to import, tuxedo computers is another great choice. I can personally vouch for framework but I'd caution if you're looking for the 16, it'll be a bit before they're available. 13ish batches pre-ordered, with batch one shipping in a few weeks, it may take quite a bit to get. The 13 though is in stock and shouldn't take too long to recieve

Edit: oh sorry, 13 inch is your preference. I'd strongly vouch for framework. I'd also say stay away from purism due to their scummy history on the phone if you care about that.

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[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

Another happy Framework user here. I have 2 first gens in my immediate family and 2 second gens among my friends. All run Ubuntu LTS. No one is complaining. I've already replaced my bottom chassis because I destroyed it during a bad mishap. Ordering was easy, the part was inexpensive, the replacement was straightforward. A Dell XPS perhaps feels a bit better made, but then it doesn't say Made in Taiwan on the bottom so there's that. 😅

On the other hand System76 is building a new open source desktop environment in a sane programming language... 🤔 If COSMIC desktop turns out great and I end up using it, I'll probably throw a couple of hundred their way in lieu of buy their laptop.

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