this post was submitted on 27 Jan 2024
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I just finally got into this game and I'm completely shell shocked! I had seen it recommended before but ventured into other games without giving it a fair shake. As an avid RTS fan since Dune: The battle for Arrakis on Sega genesis, I've been slowly feeling more and more lackluster in the genres future prospects. I was a huge Blizzard fan and when Starcraft dropped I was completely thrilled that the development started to veer away from the Warcraft style into larger armies. I was a fan of Command and Conquer, Age of Empires, and others with similar style but it just felt.....off, maybe clunky is a better term to use (even though westwood studios was the same company that produce Dune to begin with).

I was worried with SC2's lean on commanders and "special" units during campaigns but was glad multiplayer stayed a little less "MOBA". I was especially excited for Stormgate but it honestly looks more WC3 than SC and I was let down from my own expectations (we really need to have industry defined sub-genres at this point so advertising is better).

Then last weekend I finally downloaded BAR after I missed all of the Steam winter sales and wanted something new to play. I'm completely blown away from what this game has accomplished and where it's going. This feels like the first RTS game I've played that was made by real RTS players.

There's so much functionality and cohesion going on I don't know where to begin or how to describe it. You know every game that you play where you have to download copious amounts of mods for quality of life or gameplay improvements? They just bake it right into the game. Ever just want to sit back and watch a huge 25 v 25 battle with 10k units on the board? Literally jump into any lobby you want and watch the chaos commence (8v8 is the most popular that I've seen atm). This entire week I've had my "BAR TV" setup where it literally non-stop plays matches in spectator mode (lobbies stay up where new players filter in and out so it will never stop unless you log out, awesome system).

There's so much I have to learn. I was Diamond League in SC2 and on BAR I'm getting completely torn to shreds by the easiest AI difficulty. It's such a different mindset you need with this game, the hardest opponent is yourself and keeping your head in the game. I've watched games where a team is up 30% in resource production over the enemy team but it all comes down to your moral. There's so much potential for proper strategies and there's no concrete "winning" path, it's all about your tactics and ingenuity. With a team game it's about support and functioning cohesively like an actual real battle.

I haven't felt this excited about gaming in a long time and I can't wait to see where this game goes, I've already started spreadsheets for comparisons and making build orders with counter plays. I think I've found my home for the foreseeable future and I'm definitely satisfied. For anyone interested I'll link some good videos and content creators I've stumbled onto, if you have recommendations I would love to hear them as I've only been watching a few casters so far.

TL;DR: BAR good, it's free so go download it.

Videos as promised:

WinterStarcraft - The biggest RTS battle ever?! Total Annihilation inspired RTS - BAR (Winter also has his own voice overlay on the game, I thought "Winter" was just a character/theme and I laughed my ass off when I heard his voice come through while playing and having one of his videos on in the background)

Drongo - The Best Strait Spawn Is Actually Water - Beyond All Reason (BAR) (the game has water units like boats and hovercraft facilities with it's own tech trees! I just really such at water atm)

FitzBro - Beyond All Reason Beginners Guide (BAR) (one of the first one's I stumbled across looking for more guides, not sure if there are better ones out there yet.

WinterGaming - Nuclear Terraforming in Beyond All Reason! (Insane Game) (I wasn't aware that you can actually terraform in the game till this video and it's incredible.)

Also in about 10 hours the 2v2 pro tournament is about to start! If anyone's interested I'll post a link but I'm not sure where it's officially done yet besides one older 1v1 tournament I watched the other day (not sure if it's the same channel or if what I watched was the "official" upload).

Edit: The official 2v2 Pro Tournament just wrapped up! It’s located here. The juicy parts are near the end but kudos to the streaming team for keeping it going for 8 hours! I really enjoyed the bump in professionalism and the overall flow of the event compare to the previous event I watched, their constant improvements is what’s going to be keeping me hooked for a long time. Also I'll include a link to the actual game download below as @gmr_leon@mstdn.social pointed out it was missing,

Beyond All Reason - Main page
Direct Download link

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[–] gmr_leon@mstdn.social 17 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I think you forgot a link to the game itself! 😜

https://www.beyondallreason.info/

That aside, I've been giving it a look again lately but haven't dove in just yet. I'm in an odd mindset atm where I don't know if I'm down to wrap my head around RTS mechanics, but I'm really impressed by the looks of the game!

Also wanna highlight that this is a great rabbit hole to go down for other open source RTS games via Zero-K, Spring Engine, OpenRA, etc.

#VideoGames #Gaming #OpenSourceGames #BeyondAllReason

[–] CapableRoot@programming.dev 3 points 10 months ago

If you're going to dive into any RTS I would definitely recommend this one. With any of them you have to familiarize yourself with the units and the interface which can seem like a lot at first till they become like your best friends and you know them by heart. A lot of other RTS's that have been around are somewhat losing steam for entry-level players and might not be worth the investment. If you want more "hero" types of RTS I would probably recommend something like Stormgate but if you're interested in military/army battles then BAR is a winner.

I don't know why I didn't link the website lol, guess in my head I didn't want it to come across as sponsored or something and anyone who was super interested would just look at the links in the videos or search it. I'm just very entertained atm so figured I would share the videos that got me to this point. Thank you for the Zer0-K and other references, looked it up and now realizing there's a whole slew of projects and remakes I've missed out on.

You made me pause for a while and contemplate my RTS gaming history. I was never really enthralled with medieval or time period rts's (even though I've definitely sunk a lot of time into some of them like lord of the realms) but C&C I absolutely loved when it first came out. The cool live-action cut scenes, expanding what I was familiar with playing Dune, even had family members that also really got into the series. I slowly drifted away from it, I realize it was because of the excessive never-ending expansions being released and an absolutely bonkers story of a political drama it was. I just couldn't keep up with all the releases as a broke kid and the characters/story lines did nothing for me.

Old school Blizzard did a great job with Warcraft cinematics for the time, the mystery behind the world you inhabited was left to your imagination at the beginning. They did a banger of a job with the Starcraft lore when it came out as well. I still remember pouring over the game booklet with the origins story before and after getting to finally play it. Human prisoners lost in space like some kind of 30th century Australia stuck in cryo-sleep and only awake to find they can never return home? Fascinating. Zerg Hive mind with specialized broods with their own lore? Baelrog Brood is legendary to me still. Protoss was just so fascinating and everything connecting the universes stories together just seemed mystical. Though I feel like they just completely botched it, Brood wars story was too rushed with a million things going on, SC2 was just abysmal and generic story telling but I do appreciate that something did happen after sc1 as I would be complaining for different reasons if they had just dropped it and moved onto a different game lol. Sorry for the wall of text, was nice to get this fleshed out from my mind though.

[–] HeckGazer@programming.dev 7 points 10 months ago

Hell yeah, love BAR. The discord group slowly started falling apart as we all fell out of love with SC2 but we're back to regular matches every night now that they've been getting converted to it.

I am more of an AoE or SC2 style RTS player, as opposed to the Supreme Commander/Planetary Annihilation/BAR style but BAR really just makes RTS feel so good it doesn't matter.

[–] Nacktmull@lemm.ee 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Spring engine based RTS games have been the best for a long time. I remember being similarly excited when I started playing Balanced Annihilation, which is the OG Spring based RTS, over ten years ago. BAR seems closely related to BA but has much more impressive looking graphics. Enjoy!

[–] dumpsterlid@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Yeah another big Spring Engine fan checking in here, the development of the Spring RTS engine and games on it has been a long road with lots of fun games played along it, mostly in Total Annihilation derivative games like BA, AA, XTA I forgot the other acronyms… and playing a TA-like game was what brought me like many others to playing games on the Spring Engine….

We wanted to play more RTS games like Total Annihilation but other than Supreme Commander FAF no game companies really seemed interested in doing anything but copying StarCraft (ughhh) or doing something totally different like Company Of Heroes. As a TA fan it felt like the RTS genre cut off its own head by treating StarCraft like it was this perfect RTS that demanded everyone copy it and I NEVER liked it. I liked TA with huge battles, the enormous amount of units with different roles not different gimmicks, the actual modeling of unit’s projectiles not some calculated MMO-like damage exchange, the fact that aircraft actually flew not just hovered, artillery had super long ranges like artillery should and battlefields could be as large and sprawling as my computer could handle.

I hadn’t checked in for awhile, but when I tried out BAR for the first time it got me really hyped again. BAR is so polished and well made and at this point just by virtue of being a TA-like Spring Engine mod there are years and years of tweaks, additions and subtractions to the TA formula that have been hammered out through thousands and thousands of games and many different mods with different ideas of what made TA good. The end result is a REALLY solid TA-like game that has the benefit of years of knowledge gleaned from tinkering with the formula of TA. This isn’t just a clone of TA, it is TA with 10+ years more of development work focused around gameplay balance and fun.

BAR is awesome! The AI got really good too at some point?

[–] flyboy_146@lemmy.world 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

Oh wow! Thanks for the recommendation. This game does look like a tone of fun (although I suspect a steep learning curve).

The 25 vs 25 video really impressed me!

I will definitely give it a try. 👍🏻

Edit: thanks for all the reassuring feedback. I'm looking forward to putting at least a few hours learning!😁

[–] Nacktmull@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I suspect a steep learning curve

You will find one but it´s all manageable. I recommend focusing on one faction and one or two unit types at the beginning and learn just those tech trees first, to avoid getting overwhelmed by the abundance of units and go from there. Vehicles and/or Bots are good unit types to start with. Just let your team know what unit types you will go for at the start of a match, choose a fitting starting position and it should work fine.

[–] Sprucie 3 points 10 months ago

The game is great and the learning curve can be tricky, but it has a whole load of scenarios which gradually ramp up the difficulty and introduce new concepts to help you learn how to play. I'd highly recommend checking out the game!

[–] CapableRoot@programming.dev 2 points 10 months ago

The learning curve does look really brutal but it made me realize I was falling into a gaming rut. I thought I was a decent gamer but it's just that I've been playing the same "base" games with fancier graphics for so long. I've been mostly into sandbox games lately because I can vary my goals but with this game I think I'll really be able to expand into any type of tactic or strategy to scratch that never ending itch.

[–] mortalic@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

I love bar and play it all the time.

[–] CuriousRefugee@lemmy.ml 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Well, with that memory unlocked, it's time to go pull out my Dune II CD and fire that one up again. House Ordos! In the meantime, I guess I'll check out BAR.

[–] CapableRoot@programming.dev 3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Oh you're in luck, with the original CD you can play the remake people have been working on! (requires some files from the original game but has been upgraded)

Dune Legacy - Dune Legacy is an effort by a handful of developers to revitalize the first-ever real-time strategy game. It tries to be as similar as possible to the original gameplay but to integrate user interface features most modern realtime-strategy games have like selecting multiple units.

  • Open source and cross platform
  • Modern display resolutions
  • Modern RTS controls like selecting multiple units and right-click commands
  • Original campaign with Harkonnen, Atreides and Ordos
  • Super Dune campaign with Fremen, Sardaukar and Mercenary
  • Multiplayer support
  • Map editor

edit: @gmr_leon@mstdn.social listed below the OpenRA which also has a Dune 2000 rebuild on it if you're interested.

[–] simonced@lemmy.one 3 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

I didn't know that game existed! Thanks for the heads-up.
I'll give it a try in the week-end.

[–] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I love the idea of bar but I don't think I'll ever be able to play seriously. The learning curve is just massive and there's not enough time in the world among my other hobbies. Instead I'm getting my mechanized battles and explosions kick from mechabellum. 😁

Bar is what I call a lifestyle game. It's the hobby to take over all your hobby time

[–] CapableRoot@programming.dev 1 points 10 months ago

Huh, never considered it a lifestyle game. I've played games previously like Eve online that I just couldn't keep up with so I understand what you mean. I only really have played like one match a day with the rest of the time it's videos in the background catching me up on the mechanics while I do other hobbies or chores around the house. I get your point though and I'm probably underplaying the importance of the time I'm dedicating to learning everything about it. I suppose it's a double edge sword, more varied units means more types of strategies that can be implemented which is something I'm loving about this game but at the detriment of the learning curve being more intense for late game play.

[–] Fizz@lemmy.nz 3 points 9 months ago

Since seeing this post I've played 20+ hours of BAR. Holy shit this game is so hard to learn but so fun and the community is awesome.

[–] Fizz@lemmy.nz 2 points 10 months ago

This looks pretty cool I'm definitely going to check this out. That 25v25 game was wild.