Australian regulator calls for new competition laws for digital platforms : apple

[–] Direct_Card3980@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (4 children)

I really think Apple screwed the pooch on this one. They had a decade to open up iOS in a more controlled way. They did the opposite, locking out apps on competitive grounds, opening themselves up for obvious antitrust action. Now the decision is going to be out of their hands around the world, and the legislation is far more onerous.

As an EU citizen I cannot WAIT for the DMA to come into effect. I’m genuinely excited to see all the interesting new apps and the creativity which will be allowed to flourish again on the platform.

[–] Homicidal_Pingu@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (4 children)

Thing is it’s a private company and you are under no obligation to buy their products. Let customers choose what they want. They’re also not doing this industry wide so it’s really not benefitting people

[–] SoldantTheCynic@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Thing is the EU and probably Australia don’t care for this kind of corporate apologism and recognise the danger of complete platform lockdown. This just increases customer choice within a platform. If you actually cared about choice you’d applaud it.

[–] Logicalist@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

They are offering something no one else is, the EU want's to remove it from the market and people who value choice should applaud it?

[–] SoldantTheCynic@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

What are they offering? A closed platform that arbitrarily stops perfectly valid apps over idiotic concerns of “competition”?

When people say Apple fans are sheep this is what they mean.

[–] Logicalist@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

I want companies like microsoft, adobe, and others to go through the app store, because otherwise they're a fucking plague on the system and install a bunch of stupid shit that is hard to get rid off.

But if they go through apples system, getting rid of things is really quite easy.

Probably not as much of an issue on iOS, but if macOS is any indication of what's in store for sideloading, no fucking thanks, I'd much prefer my walled garden.

"When people say Apple fans are sheep this is what they mean.

there are words for people that talk like this as well, hint none of them are pleasant.

[–] Direct_Card3980@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Are you forgetting that Australia isn’t Somalia? They have laws and regulations around competition. If Apple wants to do business in Australia they have to follow the law. “But I don’t want to!” isn’t a good argument.

[–] Outrageous-Nothing42@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Actually no. It’s a major computing platform. Your argument is flawed. By you saying this is ok for apple then you must also be ok with the possibility that tomorrow Microsoft can do the same to windows and apple can do it to osx and google to android. What’s good for one has to be acceptable for all. Eventually every platform can be locked to one and only one source of apps completely killing competition.

[–] Homicidal_Pingu@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Argument is flawed how? You are not required to use Apple devices or services. I would argue that their products are a premium purchase if anything. They are nowhere near a majority marketshare in any sector they compete in.

That’s up to them. There are still other options.

[–] iMacmatician@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Majority marketshare ≠ major computing platform.

You will always have the option to use only the App Store.

[–] firelitother@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The EU is also under no obligation to cater to Apple's walled garden. Open up or don't sell in the EU.

[–] Homicidal_Pingu@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Why don’t they target other companies that have worse examples then?

[–] rainer_d@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I’m genuinely excited to see all the interesting new apps and the creativity which will be allowed to flourish again on the platform.

Likely, we'll just see decreased quality, new threats and exploit-vectors, scams.

And a few more adult-entertainment-focused apps (that currently Apple doesn't want).

Just like in Android-land. Or when TV got "liberalized".

All the use-cases people usually cite (emulators, shells) are really irrelevant to anybody but the absolute tiniest fraction of the user base and IMHO not worth sacrificing the obvious security and stability advantages the current status-quo offers to 100% of the user base.

[–] Garofalin@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

With freedom of choice comes need to act responsibly. Or as some may call it, being an adult.

[–] rainer_d@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

The vast majority of users clearly are not able to act responsible all the time in all life-situations.

People are flawed.

[–] Ispirationless@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Which is why the store wont be readily available on the home screen, but through the system settings.

Everyone wins.

[–] iMacmatician@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

The vast majority of users clearly are not able to act responsible all the time in all life-situations.

And yet society still gives them lots more freedom than Apple does.

[–] fatpat@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Or when TV got "liberalized".

What does this even mean?

[–] rainer_d@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Back when there were only three TV channels....

In reality, all this drama about "choice" is just governments looking to be able to more conveniently install their man-in-the-middle stack for chat-surveillance.

[–] AaronParan@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

It’s gonna be a Safari browser based app charging $9.99 a month to essentially load their website inside the app. Notice how those aren’t in the App Store? Apple banned that practice.

Also lots of porn.

And the third party app stores have to survive, so they’ll charge a 30% revenue cut, the same as Apple. Competition doesn’t mean bills don’t suddenly disappear, and salaries don’t magically pay themselves.

And to top it all off, the third party app stores will need Apple’s signature on the certificate of the third party App Store app, which Apple will charge a yearly fee based on revenue.

[–] FollowingFeisty5321@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

It’s gonna be a Safari browser based app charging $9.99 a month to essentially load their website inside the app. Notice how those aren’t in the App Store? Apple banned that practice.

The App Store is absolutely, overwhelmingly flooded with garbage subscription apps...

[–] Direct_Card3980@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

No, competing stores will be a full native app, just as the Digital Markets Act requires.

It is yet to be seen what competitors will charge, however one thing is a universal constant: competition usually brings prices down. Apple makes enormous profits on that 30%. This leaves from for competitors to charge much less and still earn enormous profits.

As for Apple charging a yearly fee to developers, the DMA explicitly prevents that.

[–] AaronParan@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

No, the DMA cannot stop a FRAND

[–] Direct_Card3980@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

FRAND doesn’t apply here. Even if it did, FRAND would require Apple grant access to iOS. The opposite of what you’re claiming. I think the EU knows a little bit more about their laws than you do.

[–] Put_It_All_On_Blck@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

I agree. Apple should've known that this would eventually bite them in the ass. I'm actually surprised it's taken this long.

Apple should've made it so that consumers really prefer using the App Store and then open up iOS. Steam isn't the biggest PC gaming platform because it forces people into it, but because it's the oldest and most feature friendly. While side loading and third party stores are a thing on Android, most people use Google Play Store out of convenience unless the app is banned or priced too high.

Apple will fight this tooth and nail because digital sales are their second biggest revenue stream and growing, more than Mac or iPad. But I don't see them winning this long term, and once one country wins a suit against Apples closed garden of apps, the rest will follow if Apple doesn't make worldwide changes.

[–] SoldantTheCynic@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

As an Australian - I am excited and I hope Apple just also enables sideloading here to sidestep any attention.

[–] BrendonBootyUrie@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Go ACCC!

[–] iamagro@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Apple should thank all these regulations, I'm buying an iPhone thanks to them and USB C

[–] Ask_for_puppy_pics@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (4 children)

I got an android tablet and downloaded Reddit. It didn’t even have the ability to go between landscape and portrait mode - is this the level of development effort people want on iOS or something lmao

[–] Dismal-Dealer4298@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

To be fair, Android tablets are trash.

[–] MinecraftW06@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Well the official reddit app sucks.

[–] smulfragPL@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

man people are ignorant as shit in this sub

[–] RealTykers@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

It's also reddit so people here just want the government to force Apple to do everything they think Apple should do like switch to USB C

[–] cleeder@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

I can list several apps on I have installed iPadOS that do this today…

[–] TheElectroPrince@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Every time I think about leaving Australia behind and moving elsewhere, it’s the little things like good consumer rights and actually having a spine against (some) corporations that make me want to remain here.

[–] TheRiotPilot@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

The simplest solution would be to remove so called “core” apps from the OS.

Music, News, Podcasts, etc should all be stand alone apps that you download from the App Store and are updated separately to the OS.

[–] Tazo3@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Exactly most new features they release are not even os features just app updates.

[–] Casban@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

On the other hand I know people who will update their OS and not update any of their apps, until the app breaks because they didn’t update to something patched two years ago.

[–] Tazo3@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Isn’t automatic app updates turned on by default?

[–] Casban@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

They turn that off because they don’t like change - but then every time they have to confront the change of an app update, it’s always a much bigger change because they waited so long…

[–] FollowingFeisty5321@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

And that change they’re avoiding… is to subscription-only access!

[–] mredofcourse@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I agree, but there's a slight issue... Those apps are front ends to API "kits", for example MusicKit exists as an API that many other apps utilize. Apple upgrades the Music app because it's upgrading MusicKit in the OS.

The spirit of what you want though is still achievable...

MusicKit is still something Apple upgrades as they have been, but the Music app should be required to be downloaded. They could have a Music icon which then takes you to a page allowing you to choose from a list of music apps. Once this is done the first time, it should just carry over to a new iOS or iPhone.

Additionally, 3rd party apps which utilize the MusicKit API in a new beta OS should be allowed to install beta versions of their apps by detecting that a beta OS has been installed.

[–] TheRiotPilot@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Exactly!

[–] Tom_Stevens617@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The biggest reason nobody wants to develop apps for Android is because everyone just mods your app's APK to either be ad-free or unlock the Premium version for free. Nobody's actually willing to pay the dev for their work

Introduce this to iOS too and I can imagine app quality going down here as well. I'd rather this not be a thing. People iPhones and Android phones for fundamentally different things.

If someone wants an open-source phone they can just get an Android phone. What's the point of making all phones alike though? This only reduces choice for people who don't want an open-source phone

[–] DaytonaZ33@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

People don’t realize this. This is probably the end of any quality indie developer apps. Everything is going to be pirated/cracked just like on Android and soon devs will realize there is no money to be had in mobile development. Only the largest companies will continue to develop.

I can’t remember what developer it was but it was for a popular paid iOS/Android game, they said that 95% of their installs on Android were pirated.

EDIT: it was monument valley https://twitter.com/ustwogames/status/552136427904184320

[–] Direct_Card3980@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

People don’t realize this. This is probably the end of any quality indie developer apps.

Maybe you haven’t been on the App Store lately, but it’s a wasteland of ad-supported shit and subscription garbage. It has been many years since we’ve been able to mock Android for their poor quality apps.

Further, people can already easily pirate iOS apps on their iPhone. I don’t see this change moving the needle much.

[–] DanTheMan827@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Pirated iOS apps are already a thing…

Those who want to pirate will find a way, and the rest will either just pay for it, or not get it to begin with.

The App Store and play store both need the option of demos… or at the option of the developer, time limited trials of the full app.

[–] action_turtle@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Feels like I'm the only one who actually wants the walled gardens. I just want shit to work. I want to go to the app store and download what I'm expecting. I don't want to be concerned about privacy, security and all the other stuff. It's the only reason I get iPhones, else I'd just get a cheap Android.

I get people want the wild nonsense, and you can, just buy an Android and not an iPhone.

[–] Exist50@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Then why don't you just stick with the App Store?

[–] firelitother@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Oh too bad for you. Things are going to change.