this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2023
208 points (91.6% liked)

Linux

48344 readers
529 users here now

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

Rules

Related Communities

Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

I am currently using Linux Mint (after a long stint of using MX Linux) after learning it handles Nvidia graphics cards flawlessly, which I am grateful for. Whatever grief I have given Ubuntu in the past, I take it back because when they make something work, it is solid.

Anyways, like most distros these days, Flatpaks show up alongside native packages in the package manager / app store. I used to have a bias towards getting the natively packed version, but these days, I am choosing Flatpaks, precisely because I know they will be the latest version.

This includes Blender, Cura, Prusaslicer, and just now QBittorrent. I know this is probably dumb, but I choose the version based on which has the nicer icon.

(page 2) 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] noisypine@infosec.pub 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I use system packages for everything unless I need a newer version of a specific package for some reason.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] vtez44@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I was using Flatpak and Toolbx exclusively until I discovered Nix. It's much better than using those two.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Kerb@discuss.tchncs.de 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

i avoided flatpacks before.
but now that i tried out silverblue and had to rely heavily on them,
i have to admit that flatpacks are not nearly as bad as i thought.

the only issues i encountered are with steam (might not start propperly on first launch)
and with ides(terminal starts inside the sandbox)

other than that it works great.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] mudamuda@geddit.social 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I use flatpaks mostly. Flatpak dependencies (runtimes) are stored separately from the host system so and don't bloat my system with unwanted libraries and binaries. App data and configs are stored separately and better organized. Everything runs in sanboxes. I use overrides extensively. All these are very convenient for me.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] Lamy@lemmy.fmhy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] KindaABigDyl@programming.dev 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I prefered AppImages, but now that I'm on Nix, I've gone back to native. Native packages work well in the NixOS ecosystem.

[–] DidacticDumbass@lemmy.one 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

For sure certain package managers are better than others, and NIX seems to be in a class of its own.

I don't know how much time I am willing to invest in NIX, or Guix for that scheme power, but I can do myself a favor experiment with a few VMs.

load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Crow@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I didn’t like them before I used flatseal. Now I love them.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] dontblink@feddit.it 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In place of snap OF COURSE.

I can state without any doubt that i had problems with 80% of the programs coming from snap..

[–] DidacticDumbass@lemmy.one 2 points 1 year ago

Are they related to PPAs in any way? It seems like anything Canonical does to improve package management ends up sucking.

[–] Kierunkowy74@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Definitely not me. I am on LiveUSB right now which makes my disk volume limited. And native packaging satisfies my needs (even when packages are old)

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] aspensmonster@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 1 year ago

Absolutely not, and this article goes into quite a few reasons why:

https://blog.brixit.nl/developers-are-lazy-thus-flatpak/

Sadly there's reality. The reality is to get away from the evil distributions the Flatpak creators have made... another distribution. It is not a particularly good distribution, it doesn't have a decent package manager. It doesn't have a system that makes it easy to do packaging. The developer interface is painfully shoehorned into Github workflows and it adds all the downsides of containerisation.

While the developers like to pretend real hard that Flatpak is not a distribution, it's still suspiciously close to one. It lacks a kernel and a few services and it lacks the standard Linux base directory specification but it's still a distribution you need to target. Instead of providing seperate packages with a package manager it provides a runtime that comes with a bunch of dependencies.

If you need a dependency that's not in the runtime there's no package manager to pull in that dependency. The solution is to also package the dependencies you need yourself and let the flatpak tooling build this into the flatpak of your application. So now instead of being the developer for your application you're also the maintainer of all the dependencies in this semi-distribution you're shipping under the disguise of an application. And one thing is for sure, I don't trust application developers to maintain dependencies.

Even if there weren't so many holes in the sandbox. This does not stop applications from doing more evil things that are not directly related to filesystem and daemon access. You want analytics on your users? Just requirest the internet permission and send off all the tracking data you want.

Developers are not supposed to be the ones packaging software so it's not hard at all. It's not your task to get your software in all the distributions, if your software is useful to people it tends to get pulled in.

Another issue is with end users of some of my Flatpaks. Flatpak does not deal well with software that communicates with actual hardware. A bunch of my software uses libusb to communicate with sepecific devices as a replacement for some Windows applications and Android apps I would otherwise need. The issue end users will run in to is that they first need to install the udev rules in their distribution to make sure Flatpak can access those USB devices. For the distribution packaged version of my software it Just Works(tm)

[–] sgtnasty@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago (4 children)

For me the perfect example is GNOME Builder (I use KDE Plasma) but this package has it all. No, you dont need to download any dependencies, the sandbox handles it all!

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] gaybear@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I'd rather have 5GB of binaries than deal with unmet dependencies one more time (despite many people claims, it is still easy to fall into), my only criticism for flatpak though, is that any kind of modification for a file requires you to navigate through at least ten directories.

[–] LaggyKar@programming.dev 3 points 1 year ago

Or subtle breakage, because the dependencies from the distro doesn't quite match what the application needs

[–] DidacticDumbass@lemmy.one 3 points 1 year ago

Directories are probably the most offensive thing about all package management. Developers are happy to throw their files in .hidden directories anywhere they please. No real standards for that.

I don't know what principles people are adhering to when it comes to the ideal computing environment, but having to deal with the minutia of installation problems to meet some kind of criteria is just not interesting to me either.

load more comments
view more: ‹ prev next ›