this post was submitted on 07 Jul 2023
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Fuck Cars

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Found here: https://twitter.com/CarsRuinedCity/status/1677005785862406144?t=Xolo43mUk4GnegFQE19q3g&s=19

Caption: Photo collage of a beach in Alexandria, Egypt, showing a progression in 3 images:

  1. Alexandria "Problem" - empty beach + walking street + 6 lane road with medium traffic + dense mid-rise buildings (likely housing)
  2. Alexandria "Solution" - empty beach (doesn't seem to matter) + narrower walkway or sidewalk + 10 lane brand new and empty road + tiny sidewalk + the same buildings
  3. Alexandria "Results" - crowded beach + crowded beach walkway + traffic jam on the 10 lane road
top 50 comments
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[–] buckykat@lemmy.fmhy.ml 142 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Just one more lane bro I swear we're gonna fix traffic

[–] macawire@lemmy.world 40 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Come on bro just one more there’s just not enough room for people to pass bro merging makes things tough bro just one more lane please

[–] No_Eponym@lemmy.ca 27 points 1 year ago

It's hard to stop once you start doing lanes man.

[–] MashingBundle@lemmy.fmhy.ml 10 points 1 year ago

95% of city planners quit before adding the final lane that fixes traffic

[–] funnystuff97@lemmy.world 94 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Playing factorio has given me a deeper appreciation of how much adding lanes doesn't help traffic.

Adding an extra conveyor belt to your factory line won't help you process materials any faster. You have to add more processing elements, widening the belt lines does absolutely nothing!

[–] Steeve@lemmy.ca 41 points 1 year ago (7 children)

Why's there no one on the beach in the "problem" pic? Kinda seems like one was taken in the slow season and the other was taken in peak rush hour of the busy season.

[–] menturi@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 year ago

Completely agree, that's something I noticed as well. Seems like an apples-to-oranges comparison.

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[–] AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml 21 points 1 year ago

Please don't say the F word around me; I need to sleep tonight :')

[–] amir_s89@lemmy.ml 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

City Skylines is where i learned plentiful with so much fun. Soon City Skylines 2 will be released with even more enhancement/ improvements.

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[–] saltesc@lemmy.world 55 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

There's a few good mini-documentaries on YouTube starting from 1950s America through to now and how the USA is a robust, evidence-rich, long-term case study of why this is bad infrastructure. It's basically a modern no-brainer now. Thanks to the US we know not to do this. US cities are now slowly trying to undo decades of deep-rooted bad infrastructure choices based around reliance on big road networks.

Surprise, surprise, car manufacturers were a big player in influencing the initial decision 🤣

Having lived in metro areas that have worked on alternative transport solutions, I can tell you it's sooo much better and easier to live with. And I love cars—own three. But they're just not the convenient option quite often.

[–] herescunty@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I’d love for my car to be the inconvenient option but we’re just miles and miles away from that. Sure I could take the metro, it’d cost me more and I’d still need the car to drive to the metro station. Add an hour or so to what any given journey would have taken by car, throw in a handful of sweaty, rude and aggressive co-travelers and you have the answer as to why I drive everywhere.

[–] luca@lemmy.eic.lu 7 points 1 year ago

Yeah, but thats exactly the problem. We know stuff like that is bad, but American cities were built so fundamentally flawed, that we cannot fix the car dependency without completely rebuilding them, which is obviously not an option

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[–] Kempeth@feddit.de 50 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I like to explain this phenomenon as the free cake effect.

Say you set up a food stand with a sign "free cake". It doesn’t matter how many cakes you baked, people will keep showing up until all the cake is gone.

[–] b3nsn0w@pricefield.org 31 points 1 year ago (2 children)

and the science gets done and you make a neat gun for the people who are

still alive

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[–] BrooklynMan@lemmy.ml 42 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (12 children)

widening roads increases traffic. always.

[–] AlexWIWA@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 year ago

Anyone should intuitively understand this if they've watched people try to merge. More lanes, more god awful merging and bottlenecking at exits.

But I guess everyone forgets this intuitive wisdom when they start asking for more lanes.

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[–] stanford@discuss.as200950.com 35 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Mh.. there is still some beach left where you can add even more lanes!
This will definitely solve the problem!

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[–] ScotinDub@lemm.ee 27 points 1 year ago

Wonder how bad the noise level is on that beach. Must have to shout to be heard "IT'S REALLY RELAXING HERE!" "What?!"

[–] diskmaster23@lemmy.one 24 points 1 year ago

I love it when other countries copy the worst parts of America

[–] Mcballs1234@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

When I went to Egypt they were driving crazy there like bumper cars

[–] IndiBrony@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I taught someone from Egypt how to drive here in the UK. She would absolutely attest to this 😂 She'd tell me that when she drove in Egypt it was a case of having faith in God getting you to your destination. She also said God must have gotten sick of driving for her so He provided her a good instructor 🥰

Edit: I also just realised where I'm posting! Being an instructor, I guess I'm the devil incarnate in this community 👀

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[–] theblueredditrefugee@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Good God I can't wait to move to a country that has public transit

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[–] Phegan@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

Induced demand at it's finest

[–] VisualCicada@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Looking forward to the Lemmy post in 60 years when this is restored

[–] rDrDr@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

If we're lucky, the highway will be underwater by then.

[–] dev@vlemmy.net 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

!remindMe 60 years.

Oh wait, no, we don’t that that here, do we.

[–] match@pawb.social 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

@remindme@mstdn.social 50 years

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[–] hypna@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago (6 children)

This is one of those arguments that never made sense to me. People like to say that adding lanes just creates more traffic, but what is the proposed mechanism? Does anyone suppose that people who didn't want to go somewhere suddenly remembered that the highway added more lanes, and then decided to go for a cruise?

It suggests to me that the demand for transit far exceeds capacity, or that this traffic would otherwise have just taken a different route. Probably some of both.

That's not an argument to just build 15 lane highways everywhere, just that the common form of the supply creates demand argument seems implausible.

[–] desconectado@lemm.ee 16 points 1 year ago

Even if the same number of cars are on the road, it is likely that the bottleneck is somewhere else in the city, so adding 20 lanes won't help the issue anyway.

This like complaining the bathroom is clogged and your solution is to make the showerhead bigger.

[–] egonallanon@lemm.ee 16 points 1 year ago

The idea behind induced demand is the easier and more convenient/cheaper you make a method of transit the more people will use it. So if you make driving easier by building a super highway people will default to that whole if you build put a rail network that gets peole to where they need to go they'll take that. Transit being crowded in some ways is a good thing as it shows the route you've got is good but could prbsky do with a capacity upgrade. Of course roads being crowded is bad due to massive space inefficiencies and environmental issues.

[–] SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 year ago

If you're looking for a job and you see an opening but it's going to take you more than an hour each way to get to and from work, doesn't that make that job less desirable than jobs that are closer by?

Conversely if you're looking for a new place to live aren't you going to consider places that are closer to work to be more desirable?

Suddenly there's road expansion and a house that used to be 2 hours drive away is now 30 minutes drive from you. So you buy the house.

This would all work out great if you were the only one that thought this. But unfortunately there are many many more people that will also get a house or find a job that's further way, because it's only a 30 minutes drive now. So now more people are using the highway and that 10 lane highway is clogged, and that commute time starts going back up. But now you have a mortgage now and so you're stuck. Everyday in your car for more than an hour each way again.

Cars are simply an inefficient way to move a lot of people. A highway expansion only temporarily solves the problem, but when the highways work well, more people use it and those inefficiencies rear their ugly head again.

[–] OddFed@feddit.de 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Induced demand kinda follows the same psychological patterns as the rebound effect. Latter is easier to understand however.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebound_effect_(conservation)

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[–] veganpizza69@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

Here's an explainer for Induced Demand. You'll never guess by who: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za56H2BGamQ

[–] htrayl@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

There are probably a couple mechanisms:

  1. Reduced viability of hyper local services. People drive a longer distance to a central location more than the shorter distance.

  2. Less self-optimization of work-home proximity. People are more likely willing to work further away.

Both can be argued as both a good and bad thing.

[–] Mrkawfee@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

Induced demand in action.

[–] rexxit@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The real problem here is that Egyptian cities are grotesquely overpopulated. Cairo is the poster child for urban hell.

[–] shakexjake@vlemmy.net 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

if they're overpopulated, shouldn't they focus on higher-capacity transportation options?

[–] spread@programming.dev 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They absolutely should, however as with most people in power they use cars and therefore see only the traffic jams. And of course everyone knows the best solution to traffic is just building one more lane.

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[–] venusenvy47@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I don't understand how the middle and right pictures compare. There are ten total lanes in the middle picture, but only six in the right picture.

[–] veganpizza69@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The right-side pic only shows one direction. There's a middle separator and another set of lanes in the other direction (not visible). I think this is the area: https://www.google.com/maps/@31.2207203,29.9301834,3a,75y,224.65h,97.18t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAF1QipMJJwta1iFu8TyB9UUb6xVX6fjj30Ph2Z0UGKs!2e10!7i5760!8i2880?entry=ttu feel free to look around, I'm not sure how up to date the photos are.

[–] TheMauveAvenger@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

The whole comparison is stupid without time and date stamps. First looks like it's an early morning before most people are out and about. Third looks like there's an event at the beach. Second is strange, maybe the road was just completed or shut down or the cars were edited out.

[–] Eke@lemm.ee 12 points 1 year ago

that's how civil engineers get revenge on the world

[–] legenderic@feddit.ch 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So… they're prepping it for their formula one application?

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[–] wabafee@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago

All the three looks bad to be fair, side with buildings probably businesses cannot attract that much customer which likely come from the beach since there is no way to go to the other side. Though first one is still bearable.

[–] Dirk@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago

"iMpROvEMenT"

[–] Zrybew@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago
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