Briar or meshtastic
Privacy
A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.
Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
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Telegram isn't P2P and isn't recommended. Signal is good, but not P2P. Matrix is decentralized, not P2P. SimpleX is P2P, I think, but not sure.
SimpleX uses onion links
Simplex uses Severs, you can bring your own one, but it is not peer to peer when talking about direct communication to the recipient
It’s not p2p but at least many years ago:
SMS.
If the Internet outage is local then the towers would still work and you’d be able to get texts. I went through a few storms where wired home internet was down, the towers weren’t giving me a data connection (no mobile web browsing or anything), but I was able to send and receive texts.
If you really care about what you’re asking after, do what someone else said and get a radio license. It’s 150 year old technology and every time something happens radio operators pop up some kind of emergency communications or bridge to the internet through repeaters or something.
The first thing that comes to mind is Meshtastic: https://meshtastic.org/
I mean this is a terrible answer, but DS pictochat fits that
No joke, I was talking about this recently. I feel like niche groups (me included) are just going full-circle back to the DS days
Meshtastic can be encrypted and is LoRa based. Can easily hit nodes dozens of miles away with a good line of sight. It also relays messages across nodes to reach even further distances.
Depending on how far you're willing to push the definition of "messaging" you could look into getting your ham radio license. It can't possibly be censored and allows you to communicate all over the world. You can even build your own radios if a government cracks down on them for some reason.
Woah Briar is really cool. I think this is like what I want Signal to be.
This was a common thing that was developed for the international protests after Arab Spring, which would frequently have their Internet shut down as a State tactic to prevent communication amongst protestors.
Mesh net chat apps like FireChat were born in response
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/FireChat
Edit: apparently wikipedia says it wasn't developed for protests, it just happened to be released at the same time
Yes, it's possible. To be honest, I find it very sad that we have grown so dependent on ISP and big telecom companies to have a working network.
In theory, you could have an infrastructure in your neighborhood and be able to play Quake with your neighbors without making use of the phone line at all, completely free of monthly fees and with a very efficient and fast connection too! you'd just need cabling connecting the apartments/houses and some decent routers controlling/restricting access on each subnet. It's a pity that's not a standard thing when designing residences.
Though less efficient and more limited in range, you can technically do it with Wifi and mesh networking too... there are projects like B.A.T.M.A.N (https://www.open-mesh.org/), however, it's not very user-friendly to set up. I believe there have been some projects that attempted to launch embedded devices to act as mini routers for this, but the spread has not been wide enough to make it worth it, sadly.
Briar has a mesh mode. And i think there was a matrix app doing this too?
There used to be one years ago that used WiFi radios or Bluetooth or whatever so you could chat to people near you... I totally forget what it was called though.
Briar?
Bridgefy was used more during protests since it's available on both iOS and Android, while Briar is Android only.
Bridgefy seems to require an online account to use. Brair requires zero obline accounts, and even allows sharing the apk to nearby devices without internet.
Edit: Yea, just checked... Bridgefy requires an internet connection the first time you launch it. Not good...
Yeah I'm not saying Bridgefy is better, just that it's available on both major mobile platforms while Briar isn't. I do prefer Briar on technical and privacy levels.
If you don't want to use internet the only ways are to use radio or deploy your own network infrastructure (optic fiber or cell tower), so there's no really any messaging app that can be used without internet. Briar can use Bluetooth but with a limited range, needing an actual dense mesh network.
yggmail is a fairly obscure and experimental take on email on a mesh network: https://github.com/neilalexander/yggmail
Would this work through something like meshtastic?
yggmail specifically, probably not. yggdrasil uses TCP/IP and the Meshtastic latencies to perform connections would be too high AFAIK. It would probably only work in a fairly well-connected network. yggdrasil could be used directly over a WiFi protocol but it would need fairly good reception to function.
N.B. I haven'texperimented with this myself.
Surprised nobody mentioned scuttlebutt yet https://scuttlebutt.nz/
SSB can use the internet to share encrypted messages via hubs/servers, but it also can share the same messages peer to peer in a mesh sort of setup without the internet using a 'gossip' protocol within a local network. It was invented by a sailor who was regularly away from WiFi due to being at sea.
Yea but there are android versions too. Its to send files over WiFi direct phone to phone with no network but some also have chat.
Oh interesting! I'll take a look into it thanks.
yes, a lot of people were using those kinds of apps during the free hong kong protests, they go from device-to-device with no internet in between.
No idea what the app is called, but apps like those exist
This one works, if you don't mind a little diy and texting only: https://circuitmess.com/products/chatter-lora-communication-device
scratch telegram off that list, put Session messenger there instead.
Telegram isn't private, one guy has the master key to the whole thing
wouldn't a cheap walkie-talkie be more practical in that situation?
i remember using this app some time ago ☞ https://f-droid.org/packages/org.jsl.wfwt/
wouldn’t a cheap walkie-talkie be more practical in that situation?
That's not secure or encrypted
You can encrypt a radio.
Rattlegram is an app on iOS/Android that alllows converting text to audio and play it over your phone's speaker
Secure Space Encryptor (SSE) (known as Paranoia Text Encryption on iOS) is an Open Source app that can encrypt text.
- Use SSE to encrypt text
- Copy-Paste the Ciphertext to Rattlegram
- Sent it over the radio
- On the other end, use Raddlegram to turn the audio back to the ciphertext
- Use SSE to decrypt.
Voila! Off-Grid Encrypted communications.
Warning: Encryption over radio is illegal in many countries 😉 (but fuck the law lol, who cares)
You can encrypt a radio.
Yes, but that requires you and the one(s) you're communicating with to mod some radios and then to keep those radios secret, which won't be easy once you start using them, especially in a situation like that where the government would probably be scanning those frequencies for exactly that