this post was submitted on 18 Jan 2025
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Vincent Oriedo, a biotechnology scientist, had just such a question. What lessons have been learned, he asked, from Harris’s defeat in this vital swing county in a crucial battleground state that voted for Joe Biden four years ago, and how are the Democrats applying them?

“They did not answer the question,” he said.

“It tells me that they haven’t learned the lessons and they have their inner state of denial. I’ve been paying careful attention to the influencers within the Democratic party. Their discussions have centred around, ‘If only we messaged better, if only we had a better candidate, if only we did all these superficial things.’ There is really a lack of understanding that they are losing their base, losing constituencies they are taking for granted.”

“We have set ourselves up for generational loss because we keep promoting from within leaders that that do not criticise the moneyed interests. They refuse to take a hard look at what Americans actually believe and meet those needs.”

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[–] Suavevillain@lemmy.world 66 points 6 days ago (7 children)

Trump pretty much won on optics alone and positioning himself once again as looking out for people despite not being true at all. Dems didn't want to address people's issues with the economy and did the weird thing of tap dancing for right Dick Cheney voters who don't exist.

Just stand for something, even if the risk of loss is high. It pays off in the end.

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 10 points 6 days ago

Trump won on optics because the optics on the ground matched what he was saying. Democrats insisted the economy was fine when people were hurting, and lost because of that.

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[–] kandoh@reddthat.com 60 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (6 children)

Every breakdown and postmortem i see make it pretty clear:

If you paid close attention and were well-informed, you voted for Kamala.

If you believe things aren't true or didn't pay close attention, you voted for Trump as a sort of totem for wealth and success, not because of a specific policy of his you like. He just represents making lots of money to you.

Any grappling with what went wrong or improvements needed within the DNC first needs to reckon with the reality that people aren't seeing left-wing messaging and are instead exposed to a fake version of leftism pushed constantly by right-wing actors on social media.

[–] firadin@lemmy.world 27 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Everyone complains about poor Democratic messaging but when are we going to admit that as long as Republicans own all major media platforms, any messaging by Democrats is going to be distorted into nonsense by the media?

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[–] Zetta@mander.xyz 27 points 6 days ago (4 children)

I think a lot of people have problems with the Democratic Party being bought by the billionaires as well ...and supporting genocidal regimes.

I voted for Harris but you boiled it down to a few lines and missed a lot of reasons why I think a significant amount of Americans didn't vote at all.

[–] WagyuSneakers@lemmy.world 13 points 6 days ago

I voted for Harris, but I think that they're missing the point. They needed to win over more people with their candidate. You still have to be popular and you don't have a divine mandate because your opposition is intolerable.

I am a demographic Dems claim to champion, but I haven't ever seen that support materialize. Somehow they never help me. I vote Dem because I like Rep less. I get not liking Dem as a party. I don't like them either. This is very prevalent within my communities. It drives voter apathy and pushes moderates to the right. They're viewed as incompetent in addition to being just bought and paid for as Reps.

They haven't had a genuine primary in decades. They haven't tried to connect with small-midsize cities in decades. They've completely failed to communicate with their average voters and that is THEIR job to do that. The last minimum wage increase was signed into law by Bush and then Dems sat on their thumbs for three terms. I do not accept "I tried." I need a party that can win those battles. I've tried engaging with my local Democrats, but I get boilerplate responses. I'm fairly sure they're all chatbots at this point.

And most importantly, it's hard to root for a perpetual loser. Even when they win they still lose and can't do anything. It's never their fault. They just never do anything. I need someone intelligent enough to win. Dems don't provide that.

They'll get my vote until anyone else who isn't a Rep/Fascist has a chance of winning and not a moment longer. It's so wholly undemocratic that I have to choice between a Kleptocrat or a Fascist.

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[–] PlagueShip@lemmy.world 11 points 6 days ago

Left wing messaging is all focused on logic and targeted to the well-informed. They have no emotional message for the poorly educated, and that's a stupid mistake. I thought these were supposed to be the smart people? Zero EQ.

[–] futatorius@lemm.ee 8 points 5 days ago

They didn't vote for Trump as a totem of wealth and success. They voted for him as their embodiment of rage, performative cruelty and payback against all the people in the US who make them feel like backwards losers. They identify with him because he's a raving asshole, and they instinctively kiss his ass because he presents himself as a grotesque WWE caracature of the rich.

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[–] mlg@lemmy.world 34 points 6 days ago
[–] Blackmist 49 points 6 days ago (14 children)

In a capitalist society, the role of government should be to protect citizens from corporations.

If nobody is willing to do that, what use are they?

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[–] Stern@lemmy.world 59 points 6 days ago

We have set ourselves up for generational loss because we keep promoting from within leaders that that do not criticise the moneyed interests

Evergreen quote-

"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair

[–] negativeyoda@lemmy.world 27 points 6 days ago (5 children)

The small concession is that Trump is almost undoubtedly going to trip over his dick, so we'll probably end up with a blue wave of some sort in 2028. Nothing will change for the DNC and no lessons will be learned, so 2032 looks bleak as shit.

We need to understand that Dems are not going to fight for anyone besides their donors. They'd rather lose than take pointers from someone like Bernie

[–] MataVatnik@lemmy.world 12 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

I've been hearing blue wave since 2016, it's almost 10 years now. Where is this blue wave, democrats barely got majorities, but hardly what I would call a wave. It's not going to happen in the next midterms, just another razor thin majority where some of the supposed Democrats vote alongside republicams to fuck over the people.

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[–] futatorius@lemm.ee 10 points 5 days ago (1 children)

From now on, the elections are rigged. The media is almost entirely fascist- or oligarch-controlled (to the extent that there's a difference). The courts are so corrupted that there will be no justice from them until they are purged.

But yeay, just sit there complacently and wait for the pendulum to swing. That'll work.

[–] Kyrgizion@lemmy.world 8 points 5 days ago

Lol @ the people who think they can vote themselves back out of this mess. Trump made it quite clear that "You won't have to vote anymore" after this term. I for one believe him. Even if he dies you'll just get saddled with one of his sons, daughter, son-in-law, ...

[–] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 9 points 6 days ago (3 children)

we’ll probably end up with a blue wave of some sort in 2028

Don't worry, that will get fucked up, too. A bunch of blue dogs who the DNC supports will win and they'll claim that it's a evidence that progressives can't win.

I've been through this bullshit enough times to have learned the pattern

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[–] kipo@lemm.ee 33 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Left vs right or democrat vs republican — that framing is a distraction in this political reality. The war is between the 99% and the 1%. It’s the working class vs the billionaire class. Your republican neighbor may be a MAGA religious crazy, voting against his financial interests, but he’s been successfully manipulated by a corrupt party controlled by billionaires. Your other neighbor may ‘vote blue no matter who’, ignoring or ignorant to the fact that most democrats at the state and federal level are also influenced or bought by corporate interests and the 1%. These neighbors are clearly not the same, but they are both supporting the interests and agenda of a billionaire class that is oppressing them.

That is not to say that republicans or religious extremism are not threats — they very much are — but they have been allowed to gain power due to a broken and corrupt system of government.

The system is broken because unlimited money gets funneled into politics. It’s destroyed our checks and balances, as well as the incentive structure for our judges and our representatives — most of whom no longer have a primary interest in representing the 99% of us. We are being taxed, robbed, poisoned, oppressed and enslaved by our own government, without even proper representation to show for it.

We cannot expect that our elected representatives will act in our best interests; they require our constant input and scrutiny of their actions. Either we as a people become more involved with politics at all levels of government, or we start a revolution. The problem of corruption in all levels of our government will not be solved by the corrupted. A continuation and increase of wealth inequality will destroy this country.

The corporate-backed fascist MAGA-America regime starts tomorrow, but we are not powerless. The 99% has power. We must come together, organize, educate, exercise empathy and patience with one another, and take action; we can take back control. We have to.

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[–] MellowYellow13@lemmy.world 26 points 6 days ago (7 children)

Neoliberalism is done, it's fucked. The liberals wanted and thought they could pull another Bernie and people would just go with it, fuck that.

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[–] rayyy@lemmy.world 16 points 6 days ago (8 children)

Corporations and Republicans control the media. Putin deployed psyops on the social media of the bar room and bowling alley crowd. They controlled the narrative and will continue to control it until people wake up and realize they have become wage slaves who have a shit-hole standard of living.

[–] WoodScientist@sh.itjust.works 9 points 6 days ago

If Democrats hadn't made a bunch of unnecessary and unforced errors, then we could blame it on the corpos and the Russians.

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[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 27 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (25 children)

“The things Harris said, like she was going to give $25,000 for people to buy their first home, there were a lot of people said she was giving their money away to people who didn’t deserve it. It cost her votes. We were trying to tell her that.”

What's the answer to that? On the face of it, this says that the electorate don't want public money spent on helping other people who need help. How do you achieve anything other than conservatism with such an electorate? The only thing I can think is that you have to promise to help more of the electorate, and that the money will be come from the very rich. In other words, the only counter to conservatism is a commitment to actual wealth redistribution, and to going up against the selfish interests of the super-rich. That's not yet even socialism, but it's still further to the left that the Democratic Party is willing to go. For now, its leadership would rather lose elections to fascists than challenge billionaires.

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[–] Draegur@lemm.ee 17 points 6 days ago (2 children)

The Democrat aristocracy do not care about winning.

They only care about marketing the disaster of their losses so that they can launder billions of dollars in "vote blue" spam campaigns.

All those donations are going somewhere - to "consultancy firms". To "ad agencies". And then they get to enjoy kickbacks from this mutual relationship.

THEY DON'T NEED TO WIN TO RAKE IN BILLIONS.

and so they don't even try.

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[–] moitoi@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 5 days ago

Don't worry too much, it's the same in France. A whole side of the politic is in denial.

[–] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 10 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (5 children)

The only lesson to be learnt from this is that forgiving debts, pardoning marijuana offences, wanting fair elections, etc don't work.

The only lesson they could learn from this is that they weren't conservative enough.

Fuck that lesson.

[–] golli@lemm.ee 10 points 6 days ago (14 children)

They don't learn the lesson, because they don't want to. And your examples imo show the problem.

forgiving debts, pardoning marinuana offences

These are not solutions, they are bandaids that like a drug keep you dependent on politicians repeating them again and again. Which of course is nice when your only goal is to get relected, but longterm that magic wears off.

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