this post was submitted on 02 Jan 2025
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One thing Europe can lay claim to is the steam engine, because the British had deforested so hard they needed to mine for coal and a machine that could power a pump with coal to drain the accumulating water from the mines was actually useful enough to find support.

But once we get into the further progress of the industrialisation, I'm pretty sure gunpowder enters the equation (jog my mind, I dimly remember some synergy between developing better artillery and developing the methods to create smoother cylinders, which helped with creating better steam engines).

[–] gramie@lemmy.ca 26 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The Mongols had superior technology too: stirrups so that they could shoot arrows while riding their horses instead of dismounting every time they shot.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 27 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Nah, stirrups predate the Mongol conquests significantly, had already spread over the area they'd conquered, and horse archery was practiced well before the invention of the stirrup anyway.

The Mongols swept over the land because Genghis Khan suddenly said "All of these warring nomadic groups who hate each other? I'M in charge, and I say we're all one, united, harmonious people, the people of the Felt Walls, and everyone else can choose to play nice with us or face our wrath."

Suddenly all the nomads who intermittently were a problem even when they were in fragmented groups are one massive super-nomad polity, and no one seemed to stop and think whether it was a great idea to agitate them like they used to be able to until they'd conquered most of China and Persia.

Once that unity faded with the death of the Great Khan and his immediate successors, the Mongols became less invincible.

[–] gramie@lemmy.ca 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Stirrups had been invented before the Mongol invasion, but they were not in widespread use in Europe. The Mongols had other advantages, including tactics, that gave them a decisive advantage.

The other reason that the Mongols became less invincible, of course, is that their enemies learned to use their tactics and equipment.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 11 points 2 days ago

Stirrups had been invented before the Mongol invasion, but they were not in widespread use in Europe.

  1. Europe was at the ass-end of the Mongol conquest, not one of the main theatres.

  2. The stirrup was absolutely in use in Europe by the time of the Mongol Invasion, and had been widespread for some 400 years at that point.

The other reason that the Mongols became less invincible, of course, is that their enemies learned to use their tactics and equipment.

  1. They didn't, though. The Mongols' tactics and equipment were by no means new.
[–] Slovene@feddit.nl 27 points 2 days ago (2 children)

With our superior technology that we TOTALLY invented, like gunpowder and paper.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 17 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

"And OUR natural resources of thousands of tons of silver and gold that definitely weren't plundered from a continent the rest of the Old World didn't even know existed!"

[–] Slovene@feddit.nl 13 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Oh, I also forgot a very important thing that also helped that we TOTALLY invented: the compass.

[–] marcos@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago

Hum... You may have better luck if you try some tech that wasn't half a millennium old at the time.

[–] someguy3@lemmy.world 15 points 2 days ago

I heard that Mongolia's rise just happened to occur when there was a couple centuries of better rain. It fits.

[–] Gullible@sh.itjust.works 14 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Attacking while running away is, was, and will continue to be a top-tier strategy for the next 20 years. Terrifying that a timeless strategy will be nearly completely overtaken by drone production.

[–] phdepressed@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 days ago

Run away then hammer back with kamikaze/anti-drone drones when they move to take the ceded area. Strategy still fine probably.

Just like meat waves still work (that's why Russia makes any progress in Ukraine).

[–] affiliate@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

it really is incredible how much genghis was able to accomplish with just horses. it's kind of surprising that nobody before him thought to weaponize horses in that way. people have always been trying to put deadlier weapons on top of horses, but genghis was the first to ask "what if the horse was the weapon?"

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 12 points 2 days ago

He was far from the first. He was just good at organizing his horse-riding peoples into a military force.