this post was submitted on 26 Dec 2024
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How about ANY FINITE SEQUENCE AT ALL?

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[–] 0x0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 60 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The jury is out on whether every finite sequence of digits is contained in pi.

However, there are a multitude of real numbers that contain every finite sequence of digits when written in base 10. Here's one, which is defined by concatenating the digits of every non-negative integer in increasing order. It looks like this:

0 . 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ...
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[–] juliebean@lemm.ee 7 points 2 days ago (3 children)

no. it merely being infinitely non-repeating is insufficient to say that it contains any particular finite string.

for instance, write out pi in base 2, and reinterpret as base 10.

11.0010010000111111011010101000100010000101...

it is infinitely non-repeating, but nowhere will you find a 2.

i've often heard it said that pi, in particular, does contain any finite sequence of digits, but i haven't seen a proof of that myself, and if it did exist, it would have to depend on more than its irrationality.

[–] tetris11@lemmy.ml 8 points 2 days ago (19 children)

Isnt this a stupid example though, because obviously if you remove all penguins from the zoo, you're not going to see any penguins

[–] untorquer@lemmy.world 8 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The explanation is misdirecting because yes they're removing the penguins from the zoo. But they also interpreted the question as to if the zoo had infinite non-repeating exhibits whether it would NECESSARILY contain penguins. So all they had to show was that the penguins weren't necessary.

By tying the example to pi they seemed to be trying to show something about pi. I don't think that was the intention.

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[–] sunbather@beehaw.org 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

this is correct but i think op is asking the wrong question.

at least from a mathematical perspective, the claim that pi contains any finite string is only a half-baked version of the conjecture with that implication. the property tied to this is the normality of pi which is actually about whether the digits present in pi are uniformly distributed or not.

from this angle, the given example only shows that a base 2 string contains no digits greater than 1 but the question of whether the 1s and 0s present are uniformly distributed remains unanswered. if they are uniformly distributed (which is unknown) the implication does follow that every possible finite string containing only 1s and 0s is contained within, even if interpreted as a base 10 string while still base 2. base 3 pi would similarly contain every possible finite string containing only the digits 0-2, even when interpreted in base 10 etc. if it is true in any one base it is true in all bases for their corresponding digits

[–] underwire212@lemm.ee 4 points 2 days ago (2 children)

It does contain a 2 though? Binary ‘10’ is 2, which this sequence contains?

[–] gerryflap@feddit.nl 10 points 2 days ago (2 children)

They also say "and reinterpret in base 10". I.e. interpret the base 2 number as a base 10 number (which could theoretically contain 2,3,4,etc). So 10 in that number represents decimal 10 and not binary 10

[–] CaptSneeze@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I don’t think the example given above is an apples-to-apples comparison though. This new example of “an infinite non-repeating string” is actually “an infinite non-repeating string of only 0s and 1s”. Of course it’s not going to contain a “2”, just like pi doesn’t contain a “Y”. Wouldn’t a more appropriate reframing of the original question to go with this new example be “would any finite string consisting of only 0s and 1s be present in it?”

[–] Phlimy@jlai.lu 4 points 1 day ago

They just proved that "X is irrational and non-repeating digits -> can find any sequence in X", as the original question implied, is false. Maybe pi does in fact contain any sequence, but that wouldn't be because of its irrationality or the fact that it's non-repeating, it would be some other property

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[–] Umbrias@beehaw.org 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

that number is no longer pi… this is like answering the question "does the number "3548" contain 35?" by answering "no, 6925 doesnthave 35. qed"

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[–] tomi000@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

Like the other commenter said its meant to be interpreted in base10.

You could also just take 0.01001100011100001111.... as an example

[–] ped_xing@hexbear.net 22 points 2 days ago (26 children)

0.101001000100001000001 . . .

speech-r I'm infinite and non-repeating. Can you find a 2 in me?

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[–] MF_COOM@hexbear.net 28 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

The term for what you're describing is a "normal number". As @lily33@lemm.ee correctly pointed out it is still an open question whether pi is normal. This is a fun, simple-language exploration of the question in iambic pentameter, and is only 3 minutes and 45 seconds long.

Merry Christmas!

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[–] wheresmysurplusvalue@hexbear.net 9 points 2 days ago (1 children)

https://github.com/philipl/pifs

πfs is a revolutionary new file system that, instead of wasting space storing your data on your hard drive, stores your data in π! You'll never run out of space again - π holds every file that could possibly exist! They said 100% compression was impossible? You're looking at it!

[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 2 days ago

https://github.com/philipl/pifs

I enjoyed this linked text:

If you compute it, you will be guilty of:

  • Copyright infringement (of all books, all short stories, all newspapers, all magazines, all web sites, all music, all movies, and all software, including the complete Windows source code)
  • Trademark infringement
  • Possession of child pornography
  • Espionage (unauthorized possession of top secret information)
  • Possession of DVD-cracking software
  • Possession of threats to the President
  • Possession of everyone's SSN, everyone's credit card numbers, everyone's PIN numbers, everyone's unlisted phone numbers, and everyone's passwords
  • Defaming Islam. Not technically illegal, but you'll have to go into hiding along with Salman Rushdie.
  • Defaming Scientology. Which IS illegal--just ask Keith Henson.
[–] AnnaFrankfurter@lemmy.ml 10 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Not just any all finite number sequence appear in pi

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