this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2024
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[–] corroded@lemmy.world 88 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I can't wait for datacenters to decommission these so I can actually afford an array of them on the second-hand market.

[–] jeansburger@lemmy.world 37 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Home Petabyte Project here I come (in like 3-5 years 😅)

[–] WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

better start preparing with a 10G network!

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[–] quixotic120@lemmy.world 16 points 1 day ago (5 children)

Exactly, my nas is currently made up of decommissioned 18tb exos. Great deal and I can usually still get them rma’d the handful of times they fail

[–] dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Where is a good place to search for decommissioned ones?

[–] quixotic120@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Serverpartdeals has done me well, drives often come new enough that they still have a decent amount of manufacturers warranty remaining (exos is 5yr) and depending on the drive you buy from them spd will rma a drive for 5 years from purchase (but not always, depends on the listing, read the fine print).

I have gotten 2 bad drives from them out of 18 over 5 years or so. Both bad drives were found almost immediately with basic maintenance steps prior to adding to the array (zeroing out the drives, badblocks) and both were rma’d by seagate within 3-5 days because they were still within the mfr warranty.

If you’re running a gigantic raid array like me (288tb and counting!) it would be wise to recognize that rotational hard drives are doomed and you need a robust backup solution that can handle gigantic amounts of data long term. I have a tape drive for that because I got it cheap at an electronics recycler sold as not working (thankfully it was an easy fix) but this is typically a super expensive route. If you only have like 20tb then you can look into stuff like cloud services, bluray, redundant hard drive, etc. or do like I did in the beginning and just accept that your pirated anime collection might go poof one day lol

[–] corroded@lemmy.world 1 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

What kind of tape drive are you using? My array isn't as large as yours (120tb physical), but it's big enough that my only real options for backup are tape or a whole secondary array for just backup.

Based on what I've seen, my options are a prohibitively large number tapes with an older LTO standard or prohibitively expensive tapes with a newer LTO standard.

My current backup strategy consists of automated backups to Backblaze B2 for the really important stuff like personal documents or projects and hoping my ZFS array doesn't fail for everything else.

[–] quixotic120@lemmy.world 2 points 18 hours ago

I have an ibm qualstar lto8 drive. I got it because I gambled, it was cheap because it was throwing an error (I forget what the number was) but it was one that indicates an issue in the tape path. I was able to get the price to $150 because I was buying some other stuff and because ultimately if the head was toast it was basically useless. But I got lucky and cleaning the head and tape path brought it back to life. Dunno how long it will last. I’ll live with it though because buying one that’s confirmed working can be thousands

You’re right that lto8 tapes are pricey but they’re quite a bit cheaper than building an equivalent array for backup that is significantly more reliable long term. A tape is about 12tb and $40-50, although sometimes they pop up cheaper. I generally don’t back up stuff continually with this method, I back up newer files that haven’t been synced to tape once every six weeks or so. It’s also something that you can buy a bit at a time to soften the financial blow of course. Maybe if you get a fancy carousel drive you’d want to fill it up but frankly that just seems like it would break much easier

More modern tapes have support for ltfs and I can basically use it like an external hard drive that way. So it’s pretty much I pop a tape in, once a week or so I sync new files to said tape, then as it gets full I swap it for a new tape. Towards the end I print a directory of what’s on it because admittedly doing it this way is messy. But my intention with this is to back up my “medium critical” files. Stuff that if I lost I would be frustrated over, but not heartbroken. Movies and TV shows that I did custom muxes of to have my ideal subtitles, audio tracks, etc. all my dockers so stuff like my Jellyfin watch status and komga library stay intact, stuff like that. That takes up the bulk of my nas and my primary concerns are either the array fully failing or significant bit rot, and if either of those occur I would rebuild from scratch and just copy all the tapes back over anyway so the messy filing isn’t really a huge issue.

I also do sometimes make it a point to copy harder to find files onto at least 2 tapes on the outside chance a tape goes bad. It’s unlikely given I only buy new tapes and store them properly (I even go to the effort to store them offsite just in case my house burns down) but you never know I suppose

The advertised values of tape capacity is crap for this use. You’ll see like lto 8 has a native capacity of 12tb but a compressed capacity of 30tb per disk! And the disks will frequently just say 30tb on them. That’s nonsense here. Maybe for a more typical server environment where they’re storing databases and text files and shit but compressed movies and music? Not so much. I get some advantage because I keep most of my stuff in archival quality (remux/flac/etc) but even then I still usually dont get anywhere near 30tb

It’s pretty slow. Not the end of the world but just something to keep in mind. Lto8 is supposed to be 360MBps for uncompressed and 750MBps for compressed data but I don’t seem to hit those speeds at all. I’m not really in a rush though and everything verifies fine and works after copying back over so I’m not too worried. But it can take like 10-14 hours to fill a tape. If I ever do have to rebuild the array it will take AGES

For my “absolutely priceless” data I have other more robust backup solutions that are basically the same as yours (literally down to using backblaze, ha).

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[–] TheRealKuni@lemmy.world 62 points 1 day ago (3 children)

30/32 = 0.938

That’s less than a single terabyte. I have a microSD card bigger than that!

;)

[–] clashorcrashman@lemmy.zip 6 points 1 day ago

Can't even put it into simplest form.

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[–] gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Lmao the HDD in the first machine I built in the mid 90s was 1.2GB

[–] nova_ad_vitum@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

My dad had a 286 with a 40MB hard drive in it. When it spun up it sounded like a plane taking off. A few years later he had a 486 and got a 2gb Seagate hard drive. It was an unimaginable amount of space at the time.

The computer industry in the 90s (and presumably the 80s, I just don't remember it) we're wild. Hardware would be completely obsolete every other year.

[–] Blackmist 5 points 1 day ago

It really was doubling in speed about every 18 months.

[–] viking@infosec.pub 5 points 1 day ago (2 children)

My 286er had 2MB RAM and no hard drive, just two 5.25" floppy drives. One to boot the OS from, the other for storage and software.

I upgrade it to 4 MB RAM and bought a 20 MB hard drive, moved EVERY piece of software I had onto it, and it was like 20% full. I sincerely thought that should last forever.

Today I casually send my wife a 10 sec video from the supermarket to choose which yoghurt she wants and that takes up about 25 MB.

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[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Back then that was very impressive!

Yup. My grandpa had 10 MB in his DOS machine back then.

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[–] Cornelius_Wangenheim@lemmy.world 16 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

Avoid these like the plague. I made the mistake of buying 2 16 TB Exos drives a couple years ago and have had to RMA them 3 times already.

[–] randombullet@programming.dev 1 points 16 hours ago

Their 3tb and 16 TB are super trash. I'm running 20tb and 24tb and they've been solid... So far

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (7 children)

I stopped buying seagates when I had 4 of their 2TB barracuda drives die within 6 months... constantly was RMAing them. Finally got pissed and sold them and bought WD reds, still got 2 of the reds in my Nas Playing hot backups with nearly 8 years of power time.

[–] Cornelius_Wangenheim@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

They seem to be real hit or miss. I also have 2 6TB barracudas that have 70,000 power on hours (8 yrs) that are still going fine.

[–] SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 points 17 hours ago

Nice, I agree, I'm sure there is an opposite of me, telling their story of a bunch of failed WD drives and having swore them off.

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[–] ANIMATEK@lemmy.world 55 points 1 day ago (2 children)
[–] avieshek@lemmy.world 24 points 1 day ago

sonarr goes brrrrrr…

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 21 points 1 day ago (1 children)
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[–] wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I mean, cool and all, but call me when sata or m2 ssds are 10TB for $250, then we'll talk.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 7 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Not sure whether we'll arrive there the tech is definitely entering the taper-out phase of the sigmoid. Capacity might very well still become cheaper, also 3x cheaper, but don't, in any way, expect them to simultaneously keep up with write performance that ship has long since sailed. The more bits they're trying to squeeze into a single cell the slower it's going to get and the price per cell isn't going to change much, any more, as silicon has hit a price wall, it's been a while since the newest, smallest node was also the cheapest.

OTOH how often do you write a terabyte in one go at full tilt.

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[–] hsdkfr734r@feddit.nl 37 points 1 day ago (2 children)

My first HDD had a capacity of 42MB. Still a short way to go until factor 10⁶.

[–] 4grams@lemmy.world 21 points 1 day ago (1 children)

My first HD was a 20mb mfm drive :). Be right back, need some “just for men” for my beard (kidding, I’m proud of it).

[–] I_Miss_Daniel@lemmy.world 16 points 1 day ago (3 children)

So was mine, but the controller thought it was 10mb so had to load a device driver to access the full size.

Was fine until a friend defragged it and the driver moved out of the first 10mb. Thereafter had to keep a 360kb 5¼" drive to boot from.

That was in an XT.

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[–] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 21 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children)

This is for cold and archival storage right?

I couldn't imagine seek times on any disk that large. Or rebuild times....yikes.

[–] noobface@lemmy.world 18 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

up your block size bro 💪 get them plates stacking 128KB+ a write and watch your throughput gains max out 🏋️ all the ladies will be like🙋‍♀️. Especially if you get those reps sequentially it's like hitting the juice 💉 for your transfer speeds.

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[–] ricecake@sh.itjust.works 15 points 1 day ago

Definitely not for either of those. Can get way better density from magnetic tape.

They say they got the increased capacity by increasing storage density, so the head shouldn't have to move much further to read data.

You'll get further putting a cache drive in front of your HDD regardless, so it's vaguely moot.

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[–] dragonlobster@programming.dev 4 points 1 day ago (5 children)

These things are unreliable, I had 3 seagate HDDs in a row fail on me. Never had an issue with SSDs and never looked back.

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