Germany, "Die Welt": AfD's electoral program includes exit from the EU and the euro : europe

[–] xiaohongshu@hexbear.net 15 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (3 children)

The EU is going to disintegrate over the next 10 years, whether Germany likes it or not.

The primary goal of the war in Ukraine was not really against Russia, but against Europe, the US’s true competitor.

This is good for the US. German fascism ascending while a regional nuclear war seems inevitable? Good, let the people emigrate and move to fascist America. That’s the goal.

[–] Tomorrow_Farewell@hexbear.net 1 points 1 hour ago

The primary goal of the war in Ukraine was not really against Russia, but against Europe

This seems to be a confident but unsubstantiated claim. Like, what even is the argument here?

Europe, the US’s true competitor

And this is outright silly, considering that NATO Europe has effectively been under US control for close to a century now.
The power that is an actual competitor in this regard is the PRC.

[–] bbnh69420@hexbear.net 3 points 3 hours ago

/setReminder 10 years

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 14 points 5 hours ago

I do think the main hope was to Balkanize Russia so that NATO could start surrounding China from the west, but fucking over Germany was definitely an objective as well. The US was very unhappy that Germany was getting economically integrated with the east, and they had to put a stop to that.

[–] TheDrink@hexbear.net 29 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (1 children)

Germany: practically reconquered Europe by forming the EU in which they have obscene power to throw around and make other countries do what they want

Fascists: we're gonna tear it down because occasionally we have to make concessions to other rich countries to keep the alliance going

let them fight tbh

[–] BynarsAreOk@hexbear.net 14 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

This fascist uprising is a consequence of 2022 and Germany's complete economic devastation, its not about concessions to the US at all. More like the general worldwide trend of liberal leftists doing nothing to address the cost of living and austerity crises while the socialist left is suppressed and unable to get a decent platform to propose any real alternatives. EU in general suffered even more than the US.

Without any alternative people just move to the right. Afd used to be a complete joke irrelevant meme party mere years ago.

[–] Lemister@hexbear.net 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Afd is going to go the LePen route absolutely wont do gerxit or whatever its called. They are half ex-cdu/fdp anyways.

[–] Flyberius@hexbear.net 1 points 52 minutes ago

GERouttahere

[–] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 10 points 5 hours ago

Death to Europe lmao

[–] miz@hexbear.net 14 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Germany is one the main tentpoles if it leaves won't the EU just disintegrate

[–] SkingradGuard@hexbear.net 7 points 5 hours ago

Yes lmao

[–] bbnh69420@hexbear.net 12 points 6 hours ago

Good lmao

[–] Lussy@hexbear.net 36 points 8 hours ago (3 children)

What about exit from Nato, you cowards?

Chumps

[–] Lemister@hexbear.net 3 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

They love trump- so no. German far right is generally split on that issue. The more “palatable” elements are pro-Nato/Eu “white people club only”

[–] mar_k@hexbear.net 10 points 6 hours ago

as far as i know they've always called for stronger relations with NATO and the US. and probably especially now that trump's getting in

[–] BashfulBob@hexbear.net 27 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Would be funny if the US exits NATO first

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 30 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

It's honestly possible once Ukraine collapses. There's really no repercussions for the US leaving NATO. It's not like Europe isn't going to be dependent on US military industry going forward, so all this would do is cut US commitments, and force Europe to buy more weapons as a result. In fact, Trump might leave NATO for this very reason since he keeps complaining that Europeans aren't paying their fair share.

[–] AcidSmiley@hexbear.net 15 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

In fact, Trump might leave NATO for this very reason since he keeps complaining that Europeans aren't paying their fair share.

He also did that last time he was in office, which successfully pressured other members into spending more on their militaries. Republicans always treat their allies overseas like shit, and it works. Afterwards, the next Democratic president picks up the slack by making the Euros believe Amerika has returned to being friends with them again. Same dynamic with Dubya and Obama. It's one of the core parts of how well it works for the US to be a one-party state with two ruling parties.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 10 points 3 hours ago

it's a classic abusive relationship

[–] Frogmanfromlake@hexbear.net 4 points 3 hours ago

And the EU cucks keep taking it while thanking America for their service.

[–] anarchoilluminati@hexbear.net 14 points 7 hours ago (2 children)

I hope so.

Hopefully he can deescalate this nuclear saber rattling with Russia too.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 12 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

I feel passionate about not dying in a nuclear holocaust.

[–] BelieveRevolt@hexbear.net 10 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

How depressing is it that Trump of all people seems to be the only person who wants to negotiate with Russia?

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 12 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Truly, the fact that libs are so unhinged that they make Trump look sane on foreign policy is really something.

[–] GrouchyGrouse@hexbear.net 1 points 2 hours ago

The libs have always loved war they just got to have 30 years of it post-soviet against non nuclear powers

[–] peeonyou@hexbear.net 6 points 6 hours ago

Maybe it would make it worse? Without the constant threat of NATO and the regulations and treaties and whatever necessary to upkeep maybe the US just straight up bullying each bordering country independently into letting the US host nuclear missiles and thus run their militaries might be even worse?

[–] grandepequeno@hexbear.net 9 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

That's hard to believe honestly, I assume DW is fearmongering and exaggerating the AfD's positions since it's electoral season in germany and the party is polling in 2nd-3rd.

Either way if it's real I doubt they'd go through with it.

[–] fanbois@hexbear.net 13 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

The anti-euro (both currency and organisation) sentiment was at the core of the founders of the AfD in 2013. It got quickly supplanted by a more straight up hard-right-nationalist ideology and has not played much of a role since then, but has always been on the back burner and showed up in singular positions of its deranged members. Them picking it up now seems like a calculated political move to find another scapegoat after refugees, muslims, "Genderwahnsinn" (literally "gender insanity", which would be a great name for a queer punk band tbh) or what have you.

Is this an actual position they hold? Who knows, they are fucking fash and will say and do anything to get into power and are not beholden to anything, once in power.

[–] grandepequeno@hexbear.net 9 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

IIRC from reading Quinn Slobodian's books on free market radicals the precursor to the AfD were right wing libertarians, and those people used to be afraid that the EU would "smuggle in socialism" through regulations and stuff. Nowadays those type of ideologues mostly love the EU and like you said the AfD itself abandoned that for more protectionist policies and nationalism/scapegoating migrants.

But I'm sure the leadership understands that germany IS the EU and the euro, and its institutions are set up to make the german economic model the chief beneficiary, so abandoning it entirely instead of reforming it to be even more beneficial to germany seems like a thing they wouldn't actually follow through.

Nevertheless it's dreadful that this type of statement from the article:

Regarding the exit from the euro, the document states that “AfD is aware that the reintroduction of a stable national currency cannot happen without conversion costs. However, these will be lower than the permanent costs of remaining in the euro system”.

Is coming from the far right and not the left

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 8 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

Probably depends on how bad things get economically. The EU has been sucked dry by the three years of proxy war in Ukraine at this point. This winter is expected to be colder than the last two which could lead to a new energy crisis. That could create conditions for Germany to decide they want to reopen the remaining pipeline and try to patch things up with Russia and China.

[–] Lemister@hexbear.net 3 points 2 hours ago

Afd is gaining a lot of sympathies amongst the working class due to the fact they allegedly have “an investor” that will restore nordstream 2 and make the economy good again.

But they hate china a lot. Only BSW may be pro-china to some extent. Die Linke destroyed themselves by embracing radlibery and focusing on electability.

[–] grandepequeno@hexbear.net 8 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

We said that the last 2 times and it didn't happen, I think unless something changes germany will remain committed to atlanticism. And the guy leading the party that's leading the polls is a huge atlanticist

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 7 points 5 hours ago

What's changing is that German economy is unravelling. The atlanticist mainstream might squeak by in these elections, but the trends are quickly building against them. It's also worth noting that it's not just Germany. France, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Romania, Hungary, are all starting to turn against atlanticism as well.

The past three years have been really hard on people, and it's becoming increasingly clear that it was all for nothing. Russia is winning the war, and there's nothing the west can do about it. People are starting to realize they were being lied to and that their future has been stolen from them.