this post was submitted on 29 Nov 2024

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421

New oven and they lock the air fryer functionality behind wifi. (lemmy.ca)

submitted 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) by northendtrooper@lemmy.ca to c/technology@beehaw.org

124 comments fedilink hide all child comments

CAFE by GE for those who are wondering.

We are renovating our house including all new appliances. I have told my partner to make sure we get non smart appliances. This is why.

Yes I can setup a VLAN for it to be on but that's not the point.

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[–] xoggy@programming.dev 1 points 1 day ago

Even setting up a vlan doesn't work half the time because the mobile apps don't talk directly with the appliance but phone home to a cloud service. A cloud service that will eventually go offline and leave the appliances orphaned. That's how GE's thermostats work.

[–] TheTimeKnife@beehaw.org 42 points 4 days ago (2 children)

Smart appliances are such a ridiculous scam.

[–] neomachino@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I can totally see a point in some of the features.

The other day my wife and I got 20 minutes from home before I said "oh shit I don't know if I turned the oven off". Turns out I did, but we had to drive home to check. I would have loved to pull up an app that told me it was actually off, or even if I was on be able to turn it off from there.

With that said, it's not worth all the extra bullshit in my opinion.

[–] JustJack23@slrpnk.net 7 points 3 days ago (2 children)

And what if someone else downloads the app and turns in on?

[–] OutlierBlue@lemmy.ca 3 points 3 days ago

Then the cookies are going to be burnt

[–] neomachino@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

That's always a possibility especially when every company under the sun is making smart things on a whim for as cheap as possible. I don't trust any of them as far as I can throw an oven.

I have a few random smart things, but before I connect them to the internet I make sure they have a decent api that I can use, block external access from the router and set up a little interface so that I can VPN into my home and control stuff if I need to. So in order for anything to be compromised my whole network would have to be owned. Which is still possible but I trust that a lot more than letting 20 different apps for each device have access to anything in my home.

[–] JustJack23@slrpnk.net 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Another way to say this is that a hacker needs only access to your private network to gain control of all connected devices.

IMO this is hardly worth it when the benefits are I can check my oven remotely or I can check what the vacuum is doing.

I tend to not buy connected devices if it can be avoided.

[–] Catsrules@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 days ago

I actually find it very nice to get notifications about my toaster oven being preheated or done cooking, or being able to see how much time is left or remotely stop it.

[–] TimeSquirrel@kbin.melroy.org 129 points 5 days ago (2 children)

You didn't buy an oven. You bought a node for someone else's botnet.

[–] RobotZap10000@feddit.nl 20 points 4 days ago

Whenever someone designs or purchases a smart device, this is what they need to be told. Is it really worth the risk for potential harm?

[–] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 8 points 4 days ago

Hanlon's razor, but its interesting to imagine that some Russian, US, Israeli, Chinese, etc agents infiltrated management at appliance manufacturers and convinced them to make all their devices smart, just so they could build bigger botnets

[–] Mr_Blott 89 points 5 days ago (4 children)

If you didn't immediately take this back and demand a refund you're part of the reason enshittification is getting worse

Or American with fuck all in the way of consumer rights, one of the two

[–] photonic_sorcerer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 26 points 4 days ago (1 children)

99% of people couldn't give less of a fuck. The only way we get out of this death spiral is with smart legislation.

[–] Kichae@lemmy.ca 16 points 4 days ago

Oh no. I don't be needin' no internet enabled legislation! Good, old fahsioned, airgapped legislation was good enough before, and it's good enough today!

[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 27 points 5 days ago (3 children)

Yeah I would immediately return honestly, there are plenty other espresso makers that don't require wifi

[–] Mr_Blott 29 points 5 days ago

It's an oven, old bean

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[–] xthexder@l.sw0.com 43 points 4 days ago (4 children)

Why the fuck does an oven have a touch screen? That's a horrible idea. Good luck cleaning your kitchen without accidentally hitting "buttons" on the oven! And heaven forbid food splatter turns on your oven broiler.

[–] Railison@aussie.zone 27 points 4 days ago

How about the motherboard dying before the oven does

[–] saigot@lemmy.ca 8 points 4 days ago

I don't love touch screens on ovens either, but you just press the lock button and then you can clean to your hearts content.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

I would hope it's a special, heavy-duty kind at least.

They're on everything because it legitimately just is a good way to get lots and lots of controls and displays on a limited space.

[–] Markaos@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I would hope it's a special, heavy-duty kind at least.

I've seen an expensive microwave with a capacitive touch panel right above the door (and the door was the classic oven style, so attached by the bottom edge). If you ever had a phone with crappy moisture detection, you know where this is going.

You put your food in the microwave. Turn it on and let it heat the food up. Open the door, take the food out and close the door again. Congratulations, your microwave has probably just turned itself back on, because it detected the humid hot air rising from the briefly opened door as you touching the screen. And because most of the touch screen is "touchable", there's a pretty good chance this gust of humid air can successfully pick a cooking/heating mode and confirm it.

The microwave randomly navigating its own touch screen happened pretty much every time, passing all the menus and turning on was successful about 10% of the time.

In short, I wouldn't expect a microwave interface to have any thought put into it.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 2 days ago

Oh my god, that's horrible.

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[–] rem26_art@fedia.io 78 points 5 days ago (3 children)

they're using the Wi-fi radiation to cook your meals /s

Thats really, really dumb. I can understand maybe wanting the option of having your oven ping your phone when the timer goes off, but what could it possibly need internet access for in order to turn on the heating element and a fan for a set period of time??

[–] tiramichu@lemm.ee 56 points 5 days ago (6 children)

It doesn't need it. That's exactly the point.

Even though air frying doesn't need Internet, the manufacturer is restricting that feature as a way to force you to set up the WiFi, so they can then slurp up all your data.

They're literally holding the feature hostage, as motivation.

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[–] thingsiplay@beehaw.org 19 points 5 days ago

I had a bakery/kiosk mix of shop, where I baked bread every morning for 13 years or so. There was a customer who questioned my oven, because she actually does not know if it really radiates. And how I can be this sure about it. Its a damn oven! Like one in every household, just a bit bigger. People are really this dumb. Besides, it wouldn't be legal... oh man still upsets me. Not because of being accused for, but it upset me that people like her have the right to vote.

[–] SteevyT@beehaw.org 18 points 5 days ago (7 children)

they’re using the Wi-fi radiation to cook your meals

You're thinking of microwaves.

[–] Saik0Shinigami@lemmy.saik0.com 32 points 5 days ago (5 children)

The microwave region extends from 1,000 to 300,000 MHz (or 30 cm to 1 mm wavelength).

Source: https://www.britannica.com/science/electromagnetic-radiation/Microwaves

2.4Ghz, and 5Ghz are microwaves. Your typical microwave oven operates at about 2.45GHz due to resonance frequency of water. 2.4Ghz wifi is literally a typical microwave's neighbor.

The difference is sheer amount of power and shielding. Not the type of radiation.

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[–] jerkface@lemmy.ca 34 points 4 days ago (3 children)

So basically you paid money to store someone else's oven. How long before we are installing vending machines in our kitchens instead of fridge and stove.

[–] HK65@sopuli.xyz 7 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Straight out of Unauthorized Bread from Doctorow

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[–] beyond@linkage.ds8.zone 33 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

But they told me I can just not connect it to the internet and it'll be just like any dumb device.

Eventually these things will come with modems built in so you can't even do that.

[–] WilfordGrimley@linux.community 29 points 4 days ago (1 children)

My APAP machine has a sim card and unless I am careful to not disable airplane mode every time I start it up, it will send all of my health data to company that I have signed no agreement with.

I explicitly declined to agree to the privacy policy of the company that sold it to me.

If I find my data in a breach, lawyers will be involved.

[–] tempest@lemmy.ca 5 points 3 days ago

Hopefully you don't live in the US where your insurance company can buy that data and use it to deny you coverage or raise your rates.

They already do it with cars why not CPAP machines.

[–] Starbuncle@lemmy.ca 20 points 4 days ago

Cars already do that with having their own cell connection that you can't turn off. It's dystopian.

[–] ptz@dubvee.org 46 points 5 days ago (1 children)

That's a big, honking "no" from me.

It'd be one thing if the "smart" features were there but only supplemented the basic functionality. It's another entirely for those basic features to require an internet connection.

Out of curiosity, did the product description indicate the internet connection was required? I'm soon to be replacing some appliances and want to know what to look out for (besides all mentions of "wifi" or "smart").

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

did the product description indicate the internet connection was required?

That's an important question.

That said, we were recently appliance shopping and none of them said that it was required, but a couple of the negative reviews mentioned it.

We ended up choosing one of the very few that didn't list wifi or an app as a feature. Hopefully there isn't a stealth modem hidden in there somewhere. I guess we'll find out next week when it's delivered...

[–] ptz@dubvee.org 3 points 3 days ago

Thanks for the additional insight.

A coffee maker, I'd just return. But a dishwasher, refrigerator, oven, etc would be a huge hassle I'd want to avoid. I think my best bet, like you said, is to just look for one that has absolutely no mention of w-fi or "smart".

[–] Catsrules@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 days ago

What does the dismiss button do? Or the back button.

Just based on the messages (that could be miss leading) sounds like some features will not work.

[–] rekabis@lemmy.ca 28 points 4 days ago (6 children)

My microwave is a 1977 Amanda Radarange. It can boil a cup of water in ⅕ of the time a modern microwave can.

Now granted, it has zero fancy settings and a simple number pad that does nothing but set how long you want the microwave to run.

But honestly, this simplicity is a large part of it’s charm. No connectivity needs, no features locked behind paywalls, no extraneous bullshit or never-used features. Just a tool that does only one thing, and does it exceptionally well.

[–] JovialMicrobial@lemm.ee 8 points 4 days ago (7 children)

I got a "retrowave" in mint green. It's dumb, uses a turn dial to set the cook time, stands on little feet like it's from Rocko's Modern Life, and looks like it's from the 50's. Have a matching toaster and eventually want a matching fridge.

It's been 4 years and no issues which is more than I can say about a lot of other new appliances we've gotten for the house.

For dumb appliances with a fun aesthetics look up 'retro (name of appliance here) and you'll get all the brands who make stuff like that. It's the only way I've been able to avoid smart garbage so far.

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[–] perishthethought@lemm.ee 41 points 5 days ago (1 children)

For OUR best experience ( not yours )

F&&& that. Send it back.

[–] BaroqueInMind@lemmy.one 34 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

We can't say the word "Fuck" here? Serious question; why did you self censor?

[–] perishthethought@lemm.ee 21 points 5 days ago (5 children)

Do what you like, friend, as I did. Why? I don't swear a lot in person, and for me, I communicate the same online and off.

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[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 9 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (2 children)

That's because air fryer.

There are no dumb air fryers, are there?

[–] Vodulas@beehaw.org 3 points 3 days ago

Air fryer in this case just refers to the convection oven setting on the stove. It's not a standalone air fryer.

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[–] Exec@pawb.social 11 points 4 days ago

It's so you can have the New Turkey Mode

[–] Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de 18 points 5 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (7 children)

It's only a matter of time before corporate WANs like Amazon sidewalk and/or the ever decreasing cost of cellular modems and IOT contracts mean they won't even ask anymore.

In the mean time, these things are usually programmed with minimal effort. I have to wonder if there's an actual unlock process or if giving it a completely isolated subnet would satisfy the check.

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[–] BigBolillo@beehaw.org 10 points 4 days ago

If they will be running a botnet with your net at least it should be a fair pay.

[–] dangerous50@feddit.nl 12 points 4 days ago (12 children)

I wonder if they will eventually make a toilet bowl to connect to the Internet. Can't flush until you connects to the Internet just because....