I'm not convinced this is a Marxist perspective, not least because the author calls the Democrats center left and seems to go with the Democrat line that the path to fascism leads through Trump.
this post was submitted on 10 Nov 2024
18 points (87.5% liked)
GenZedong
4298 readers
161 users here now
This is a Dengist community in favor of Bashar al-Assad with no information that can lead to the arrest of Hillary Clinton, our fellow liberal and queen. This community is not ironic. We are Marxists-Leninists.
This community is for posts about Marxism and geopolitics (including shitposts to some extent). Serious posts can be posted here or in /c/GenZhou. Reactionary or ultra-leftist cringe posts belong in /c/shitreactionariessay or /c/shitultrassay respectively.
We have a Matrix homeserver and a Matrix space. See this thread for more information. If you believe the server may be down, check the status on status.elara.ws.
Rules:
- No bigotry, anti-communism, pro-imperialism or ultra-leftism (anti-AES)
- We support indigenous liberation as the primary contradiction in settler colonies like the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Israel
- If you post an archived link (excluding archive.org), include the URL of the original article as well
- Unless it's an obvious shitpost, include relevant sources
- For articles behind paywalls, try to include the text in the post
- Mark all posts containing NSFW images as NSFW (including things like Nazi imagery)
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
The author is a Marxist, but considering Democrats "center-left" is neither Marxist or un-Marxist.
It is generaly not marxist because it relies on the US overton window, a window we know to be HENIOUSLY to the right to the point where it can be argued both parties are Fascist. Generaly when a marxist left only starts to have meaning when you are not controlled by the Owning class.
It does not.
I am not sure what you are refering to in my statement of "it does not" Are you refering to the general marxist consnious that the US Dems are quite far right? are you replying to the claim that both parties could be discribed as Fascist, or is it that I said in general left only starts when a party is not controled by the owning class?
I'm saying it does not rely on the overton window and probably the writer doesn't even know or care what that is.
the only way that you could possibly view the dems as center left is if you are looking at them through the overton window of the United States, where all talk and view is shifted so far to the right it is not even funny. You might not know what it is or that it exists but you are influenced by it.
So the question is, are they a marxist who is so locked into the US overton window that they think the dems are something they are not, or are they lieing about something.
They are not lying and this is a genuine opinion. There is no foul play here. And to them, the Dems are center-left from experience compared to their Repub colleagues.
a trump victory: i sleep
a marxist analysis of the trump victory: real shit?
Your thoughts?
I agree with its 6 xpoints
-
The U.S. is entering a period of intensified class struggle.
-
Many people stayed home.
-
The election may have been lost at the grocery store and the gas station
-
People are tired of war.
-
Fascism wins by appealing to real demands, not only hatred and fear.
-
The movements will survive; the resistance starts now.
However, Makan, I'm just gonna predict this...
some people will point out the newspaper is connected to CPUSA, who has a stance of lesser-evilism and support of Dems, especially if they're a Hexbear user like Alaskaball, and then proceed to criticize you to holy heaven
Consider it a foregone conclusion
Yeah, yeah, I getcha.
A lot of Hexbearers don't like us CPUSA members.
But honestly, I prefer it, the CPUSA. Hell, I vote Dem on the local level because I have social services and certain benefits tied to their policies on the local level.
But otherwise, I didn't like Kamala and have repeatedly voted third-party on the federal level.
The reason why CPUSA prefers Dems over Repubs has largely to do with the 1980s and Reaganism and them being shocked at what happened (even as they supported their own campaign). Top that with the 1991 dissolution of the USSR (and Angela Davis denouncing Marxism-Leninism during the schism) and you get a lot of traumatized people who have dedicated their lives to communism and don't want a repeat of Reaganism or another lurch to the right in American politics.
Even then, their coverage of the 2024 elections was quite critical of the Dems. Very critical. At times, giving credit for certain Dems for their proposed policies, at times lambasting them for their right-wing policies.
I just feel that all this is lost on a lot of Hexbearers, though I have no ill will toward them. And the cpusa.org articles are the more official stance of the party, not the People's World articles.
I tried to offer my opinion on the matter, but I would always get dog-piled and would barely be able to reply before I get 10 comments/replies to my comments AND an eventual ban from the thread. So my replies were always a bit short and one-note AND I had to do this with crisis after crisis in my own family, which I at times explained to, well, dis-sympathy from others, so to speak.. Again, I tried to give the other side of the story. Yes, we had a schism in 2014 about endorsing Democrats. No, we don't like Democrats and intense internal discussion about it every four years which sometimes leads to mixed messaging. Yes, we support Black liberation and we have a lot of Black members, in particular in the Washington D.C. and Detroit areas (we aren't against Black nationalism and, technically, don't have a real official opinion on it, though one person ran with that talking-point against us).
But at the same time, I must be serious: we will urge others to vote here and there, particularly during an election with high feelings, because people fought and died for the right to vote and there are members that remember that acutely. And I do believe that there is an overall preference for Democrats over Republicans because Republicans often attack our members and, well, are the first ones to rail against communism and socialism.
Anyway, I don't really work within the CPUSA at this time, and may return, but I'm trying to get my career started and find independent lodging from my family, which... seems to have a real chance of happening now that I have my degree and I graduate this month, in fact (that's when the ceremony is taking place). Plus, just got a good job and have a real path forward at this time.
(we aren’t against Black nationalism and, technically, don’t have a real official opinion on it, though one person ran with that talking-point against us)
I dont mean to be rude but if your org liquidates more advanced cadre for beliving in black nationalism and "following the black panther program" because they were handing out groceries it might be against black nationalism. Important not to obfuscate this when it could hardly be called a safe space for non-white people in light of these circumstances.
Even then, their coverage of the 2024 elections was quite critical of the Dems. Very critical. At times, giving credit for certain Dems for their proposed policies, at times lambasting them for their right-wing policies.
And yet again Palestine and the whole bad cop good cop routine that the two parties play in tandem with each other obfuscated is reduced to mere policy. If PFLP (the Marxist vanguard of the Palestinian cause) is telling me to boycott the election, I will, and yet CPUSA with much more to gain from the democrats white supremacist policies are saying otherwise, it's merely because they fail to meet the correct line due to their material conditions in interest of settler colonialism and imperialism.
I really don't think an organization headed by some of the most privileged people on planet should be leading any cause that seeks to liberate the population their class position is entirely predicated on. If somehow they stopped functioning as controlled opposition and gained power they'd be no less fascist and colonialist than the democrats or the republicans.
I know you're used to being "dog-piled" on but you are lying about one of the most obvious cases of a captured white-chauvinist communist organization, saying the black and native people and settlers sympathetic to them that are pushed out and liquidated are wrong based on empty words and half-truths. It's barely different than advocating for the ACP.
We liquidated because they were flaunting party line and were breaking DemCent. We never even brought up Black nationalism. I am Latina and a member of the CPUSA and have seen no racism against non-whites. In addition, the people who made those allegations were themselves mainly white racists.
In addition, the org was in multiple protests and actions, including calling for a ceasefire officially in many city councils, I'm which we had part in, and even calling forn the divestment from apartheid Israel. The org continues to have many Palestinian members as well as other Arab members. You also cite an anti-CPUSA blog who don't use their real names, and yet have worked with people who have threatened to dox, and have doxxed, other members within the Austin club, including someone I love deeply.
Furthermore, Nat'l is multiracial and come from humble backgrounds. Joe Sims especially, who grew up rather poor. Since there is no proof that Black and Native people are pushed out, you should not go about spreading lies.
Learn from the other side of the story instead of just believing one side. I can get you started on CPUSA literature.
A few things
We liquidated because they were flaunting party line and were breaking DemCent.
Because the party line is just an appendage to the fascist democrats
I am Latina and a member of the CPUSA and have seen no racism against non-whites.
Identity reductionist, many non-white people have said otherwise you need to lay an actual argument about upholding revolutionary indigenous and black led praxis with affected people in power which is not happening in the CPUSA. Also latina is a settler identity, and CPUSA is a settler org, so not that you'd be in a place to see this kind of racism when latinidad is a huge perpetuator of it.
In addition, the org was in multiple protests and actions, including calling for a ceasefire officially in many city councils, I’m which we had part in, and even calling forn the divestment from apartheid Israel.
Yet they consistently promote the communist party of Israel which had a direct hand in carrying out the Nakba and condemn Hamas, advocate for a two state solution, so as to make every instance of toothless "anti-zionist" words and phrases meaningless. This stems from their own circumstances as settlers and bleeds into their theory of conditions in the USA (Rejecting settler colonialism as the principle contradiction)
You also cite an anti-CPUSA blog who don’t use their real names, and yet have worked with people who have threatened to dox, and have doxxed, other members within the Austin club, including someone I love deeply.
You should understand why they don't use their names. And fair, they did doxx Rickdabuffalo, an indigenous communist that left the CPUSA because his life was being threatened for pointing out the anti-indigenity in Chicanismo and had his work stolen without credit. Still sees CPUSA as a harmful settler org that upholds fascism above any effective communist praxis, and the group that was kicked out as being largely white and not radical enough.
Since there is no proof that Black and Native people are pushed out, you should not go about spreading lies.
Mf Harry Haywood got kicked out in the fucking 50s even redditor communists know this shit happens. You don't get anywhere denying reality and propping up white people you just consolidate white conciousness in your settler org that all natives and black ppl that disagree are just "wreckers" or whatever while propping up the few other individuals to tokenize when criticized.
Because of the class position of settler proletarians, they side with the settler bouigeoise to maintain their class in times of degrading conditions. They have to fight their class interest to be revolutionary and to side with the vast majority oppressed peoples of the world. CPUSA is a settler org with settler conciousness, explaining its long history of acting in tendem with settler labor movements which have always been at the expense of the greater and true proletariat. Decolonial communism is the only way forward here, in south africa, in palestine, in bolivia, and anywhere else these settler condition arises.
During the new deal, when FDR expanded whiteness to include the Irish and Scottish and promised to make America great again on the backs of the losers of WW1 and the rest of the colonized population, the CPUSA supported him because it did good by their membership. This project, this new world order, breathed life into America as it was dying as to keep it going all the way into today, with unfathomable amounts of lives sacrificed so Americans could live lives far above the standard of the rest of the world.
This is the conciousness of the CPUSA, the project they wish to perpetuate, what they mean when they look to organize and improve the conditions the American proletariat and what they mean when they oppose the republicans exclusionary racism in favor of the democrats. Integrationist racism is just the more rational form of sustaining the empire and the conditions our settler class is predicated on.
Because the party line is just an appendage to the fascist democrats
It is clearly not and goes against them continually.
Identity reductionist, many non-white people have said otherwise you need to lay an actual argument about upholding revolutionary indigenous and black led praxis with affected people in power which is not happening in the CPUSA. Also latina is a settler identity, and CPUSA is a settler org, so not that you’d be in a place to see this kind of racism when latinidad is a huge perpetuator of it.
It is not identity reductionist and you are dismissing the arguments of other BIPOC members with the CPUSA.
Yet they consistently promote the communist party of Israel which had a direct hand in carrying out the Nakba and condemn Hamas, advocate for a two state solution, so as to make every instance of toothless “anti-zionist” words and phrases meaningless. This stems from their own circumstances as settlers and bleeds into their theory of conditions in the USA (Rejecting settler colonialism as the principle contradiction)
We promote the Communist Party of Israel because they are largely Palestinian and Arab as well as other minorities.
You should understand why they don’t use their names. And fair, they did doxx Rickdabuffalo, an indigenous communist that left the CPUSA because his life was being threatened for pointing out the anti-indigenity in Chicanismo and had his work stolen without credit. Still sees CPUSA as a harmful settler org that upholds fascism above any effective communist praxis, and the group that was kicked out as being largely white and not radical enough.
It doesn't matter; it's not about "being radical enough," which is unscientific, it's about what's materially correct. Also, we never doxxed anyone, but you all doxxed several people and threatened to dox a friend of mine. Your accusations are contradicted by multiple members within the CPUSA.
Mf Harry Haywood got kicked out in the fucking 50s even redditor communists know this shit happens. You don’t get anywhere denying reality and propping up white people you just consolidate white conciousness in your settler org that all natives and black ppl that disagree are just “wreckers” or whatever while propping up the few other individuals to tokenize when criticized.
Don't trust Reddit communists or get your communist philosophical outlook from Reddit. And Mr. Haywood is only one person and does not represent all the other Communist Party USA members that stayed or left the organization.
And we've taken out lots of white people for being wreckers; the Austin club was largely white and had not a single Black person.
Because of the class position of settler proletarians, they side with the settler bouigeoise to maintain their class in times of degrading conditions. They have to fight their class interest to be revolutionary and to side with the vast majority oppressed peoples of the world. CPUSA is a settler org with settler conciousness, explaining its long history of acting in tendem with settler labor movements which have always been at the expense of the greater and true proletariat. Decolonial communism is the only way forward here, in south africa, in palestine, in bolivia, and anywhere else these settler condition arises.
This is contradicted by the experience of places like Bolivia (which I was in while it was getting coup'd by the fascists in 2019) and South Africa.
During the new deal, when FDR expanded whiteness to include the Irish and Scottish and promised to make America great again on the backs of the losers of WW1 and the rest of the colonized population, the CPUSA supported him because it did good by their membership. This project, this new world order, breathed life into America as it was dying as to keep it going all the way into today, with unfathomable amounts of lives sacrificed so Americans could live lives far above the standard of the rest of the world.
FDR didn't expand whiteness and technically the civil rights movement heightened during his tenure as President and he included many Black and non-white peoples within the government, which was a big move toward de-segregation.
This is the conciousness of the CPUSA, the project they wish to perpetuate, what they mean when they look to organize and improve the conditions the American proletariat and what they mean when they oppose the republicans exclusionary racism in favor of the democrats. Integrationist racism is just the more rational form of sustaining the empire and the conditions our settler class is predicated on.
At least read the CPUSA literature that I can give you and you may decide or decide otherwise that it's right for you. Learn the other side of the story. Don't just get your viewpoint of CPUSA from Reddit or Internet communism.
It is clearly not and goes against them continually.
Actions speak louder than words.
It is not identity reductionist and you are dismissing the arguments of other BIPOC members with the CPUSA.
No, I disagree with you. I gave my reasoning, you told me you were latina like it was relevant. This is dismissing the BIPOC arguments I am linking, by refusing to engage with them.
We promote the Communist Party of Israel because they are largely Palestinian and Arab as well as other minorities.
You said nothing of labor zionism's awful and literally genocidal history and tokenized the few arab zionists in the party for legitimacy, what fun.
It doesn’t matter; it’s not about “being radical enough,” which is unscientific, it’s about what’s materially correct. Also, we never doxxed anyone, but you all doxxed several people and threatened to dox a friend of mine. Your accusations are contradicted by multiple members within the CPUSA.
Youre right it's not about being radical enough. I am not in the Red Calrion and acknowledge their issues. I disagree on many things with Rick. Doesnt change that he was doxxed while in the CPUSA, by a at the time CPUSA member, who later split from the CPUSA because they were perceived black nationalists. Complicated contradictions among settlers in Amerika.
Don’t trust Reddit communists or get your communist philosophical outlook from Reddit.
My point was that theyre a very low bar I havent been on reddit in years
This is contradicted by the experience of places like Bolivia (which I was in while it was getting coup’d by the fascists in 2019) and South Africa
Bolivia's current "socialist" president (now kicked out of the party) has police attacking organized indigenous workers and peasantry in an attempt to prevent indigenous Evo Morales from coming back to power. And where is South Africa right now? Apartheid functionally still in place just less obvious, many disaffected with the larger settler population in the SACP joined and formed the EFF. This decolonial communist politic is where the radical communist movement in South Africa is right now, and is something we desperately need to build in America. Lwazi Lushaba's lectures on youtube are something I recommend and covers some of this history.
FDR didn’t expand whiteness and technically the civil rights movement heightened during his tenure as President and he included many Black and non-white peoples within the government, which was a big move toward de-segregation.
He campaigned greatly for Irish Americans and integrated Catholicism into whiteness, this is where white skin tone fully took over as the indicator for whiteness and preferencial economic treatment. And fuck the idea that the civil rights gains were gracefully given by the colonizers, those were due to militant action and untenable circumstances that the ruling class saw it in their best interest to remove formal segregation. This white supremacist does not get credit for doing something in his class interest. It's not often it's the first book I recommend, but read Settlers.
Learn the other side of the story.
CPUSA has had 105 years to show any kind of usefulness or revolutionary politic and has nothing to show for it besides running tail for and funneling resources to the greatest evil the world has ever seen. I have done my research, read their platforms articles and books, I have talked to the organizers, I have seen all the excuses. It's just a dead end.
"No, I disagree with you. I gave my reasoning, you told me you were latina like it was relevant. This is dismissing the BIPOC arguments I am linking, by refusing to engage with them."
You are being class reductionist and you should not bring up BIPOC peoples in your original argument like it's relevant to the CPUSA, which has many BIPOC peoples.
"You said nothing of labor zionism’s awful and literally genocidal history and tokenized the few arab zionists in the party for legitimacy, what fun."
I didn't because they're not labor Zionist. And most of the org isn't even Jewish or Israeli, it is Palestinian, including the leadership.
"Youre right it’s not about being radical enough. I am not in the Red Calrion and acknowledge their issues. I disagree on many things with Rick. Doesnt change that he was doxxed while in the CPUSA, by a at the time CPUSA member, who later split from the CPUSA because they were perceived black nationalists. Complicated contradictions among settlers in Amerika."
Except CPUSA never even brought up Black nationalism and there are many people within the org that deny this. Also, you are uncritically quoting and linking to Red Clarion.
"Bolivia’s current “socialist” president (now kicked out of the party) has police attacking organized indigenous workers and peasantry in an attempt to prevent indigenous Evo Morales from coming back to power. And where is South Africa right now? Apartheid functionally still in place just less obvious, many disaffected with the larger settler population in the SACP joined and formed the EFF. This decolonial communist politic is where the radical communist movement in South Africa is right now, and is something we desperately need to build in America. Lwazi Lushaba’s lectures on youtube are something I recommend and covers some of this history."
Bolivia's Luis Acre is Indigenous himself and so is Evo Morales. The problem is that the party MAS is split on them and it's wrong for them to split the party over personal ambition. But the socialist project in Bolivia is sound. South Africa has done away with apartheid, but was freed during the 1990s, when there was no one to support them further.
"He campaigned greatly for Irish Americans and integrated Catholicism into whiteness, this is where white skin tone fully took over as the indicator for whiteness and preferencial economic treatment. And fuck the idea that the civil rights gains were gracefully given by the colonizers, those were due to militant action and untenable circumstances that the ruling class saw it in their best interest to remove formal segregation. This white supremacist does not get credit for doing something in his class interest. It’s not often it’s the first book I recommend, but read Settlers."
I already read Settlers. Do you want me to give you book recommendations too? Regardless, the civil rights gains were not given gracefully, but were won by the working-class with blood and sweat and death. Also, JFK integrated Irish Americans and Catholicism into whiteness.
"CPUSA has had 105 years to show any kind of usefulness or revolutionary politic and has nothing to show for it besides running tail for and funneling resources to the greatest evil the world has ever seen. I have done my research, read their platforms articles and books, I have talked to the organizers, I have seen all the excuses. It’s just a dead end."
We won many reforms and victories, including being a big part of the anti-apartheid movement in the 1980s, which lead up to the sanctions against South Africa. We were behind NAARPR and NAIMSAL. In addition, many unions are here today because of us.