Corporate sponsored study finds in favor of corporation.
Stay tuned for the news at 7.
this post was submitted on 19 Sep 2024
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Electric Vehicles
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And don't miss tonight's special report: Asbestos, Safe after All? Stay tuned.
Yeah wtf. The steel frame is going to last an order of magnitude longer than the batteries
I see someone's never lived near salt water or snowy winters.
Or salted snowy winters
I think the salt is implied with snowy winters. Very few places with ice roads don't have some sort of rock salt or salt brine they put down.
Some use beet juice. Leaves everything looking like bloody murder but its good for the soil and doesn't rot your car out from under you.
I think there's a scaling issue. I wonder if there's even enough beet juice to completely replace salt.
Many don't, I've heard
I'll buy an electric car when
A) it won't spy on me and
B) I won't have to sign away my soul and first born to whatever car company I'm buying from
I'm sorry. Do you think that gas cars don't spy on you. Literally every car manufactured since 2000 has its own GSM/CMDA radio that is constantly connected and sending telemetry data to private corporations contracted by car manufacturers.
Those companies are constantly having security breaches too. Constantly
Get a Dacia Spring. Its like a classic car but BEV. And has a manual button that switches off all data transfer to the cloud.
Probably just stores it until you turn it back on. No way a company is going to just throw money away.
This shit can’t even determine it’s charging connection stare properly in cloud.
We all overestimate automotive capabilities in terms of cloud. Most of the companies make shit system with shit performance and capabilities.
I hate to break it to you, but nowadays neither of those are exclusive to electric cars. Just sounds like you might never be buying a new car again.
It’s still easy to disconnect the cellular antenna if you’re fine with losing features like self driving and map updates.
This. Shit doesn't magically communicate with the company that made it. If they don't want their data used, don't connect it to wifi and disconnect the cellular antenna and pull the sim card 🤷♂️
It would be good to know which car companies don't give annoying/intrusive warnings for doing the disconnect.
Plus I'd be concerned about gotchas regarding warranty and liability - GM just issued a recall for brake fluid level software not working, I don't want to be on the hook for causing an accident just because I didn't update my software.
I guess there just aren't many old enough electric cars out there.
What we need is an open source alternative to the OS's in our cars, but the hardware is disparate and it faces a steep buy-in hurdle of "spare practically brand new project car".
I agree with your terms, and would add one more:
C) when they don't all weigh 6000+ lbs
Hey, good news - they don't. Now back to your cave.
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They include climates in the study but only hot climates and temperate climates. Temperate climates perform the best of course, but that’s expected given the narrower temperature ranges.
I would like to see studies for cold climates. Here in Canada we have freezing temperatures for about half the year and sweltering temperatures for a quarter. The shoulder seasons bring lots of rain and temperature fluctuations. This mix of always changing temperatures and humidity (along with all the salt used to de-ice roads) is absolute havoc for ICE cars. It tends to rust them out a decades before the engines give out.
On the other hand, freezing temperatures are brutal on batteries (I know this from how my phone responds to the cold). I do know that a freezing cold battery needs a ton of extra energy to heat up before it can even begin charging. Having an EV in Canada without an indoor parking space for it is not a great experience.
Almost all new cars in Norway are electric, so it seems they do really well in the cold
Norway may be farther north than where a lot of Canadians live but it’s not colder. Where I live (Southern Ontario), it gets quite a bit colder than Oslo, despite being one of the warmer areas in Canada apart from the coastal regions.
I've had my EV for 5 years in Minnesota where our weather is worse than you down south. Other than shorter ranges in the really cold days, no problems with the battery. It's been driven and actually parked outside as low as -25F (real temp not a windchill)
Parked for how long though? Overnight or during the day? My belief is that an EV will perform much better in cold climates if you have access to indoor parking overnight, such as a residential garage or underground parking at an apartment complex. If you have to park overnight fully exposed to the outdoors with deep freeze overnight temperatures it’s going to be awfully tough on the battery.
But people are saying these batteries have built in heaters, so that’s pretty cool. I wonder how much power they’d use in that worst case scenario outdoor overnight freeze? Especially if you don’t have access to charging overnight and need to charge during the day at work.
All day ever day when I was working in an office and when it was -27F out, my son didn't listen and when to his hotel without charging first. Even at close to zero, the car ran fine and he got to the charger. However, the battery was so cold soaked that it had to heat the battery for a long time before it could charge.
Actually heat is much harder on the battery than cold. Different manufacturers have their own battery management systems and they aren't equal.
A battery also needs a ton of energy to become cold. It’s like 300-500kg of mass you need to freeze. Most cars automatically warm up the battery.
I’ve had an EV in Finland for 4 years now and it’s the best winter car I’ve had. -30 C outside and it’s literally T-Shirt weather inside the car within 10 minutes. Zero issues starting after it’s been sitting outside for a few days either.
How does heat work in EVs?
In ICE cars it's waste heat generated by the engine, carried via antifreeze to the heater core, which air then passes through. Basically, a radiator.
Where does the waste heat come from? Or is it resistive or a heat pump or something?
Yes.
Heat pump is more efficient, but resistive works fine.
And seat heaters and heated steering wheel are super efficient to keep you warm.
Very true. I used to think seat warmers and heated steering wheels were like...obscene-tier creature comforts.
Nah. They're damn near necessities once you have it.
I just got back from Quebec and vas surprised to see a ton of electric cars- like California levels of full electric cars on the road. I have to assume that most of them have made it through the winter alright, otherwise we'd be hearing about it. They do test these things in very cold climates before they sell them.
Iirc most modern EVs have passive climate control for the battery, even when the car is "off". So for cold weather that would be trace heaters or equivalent
“Actually the battery will probably lose the exact amount every year, and nothing will ever go wrong with any parts of it, and also they’ll also break the rest of the car at the same rate as a gas car, which is 20 years, which we’re going to call 15 years. Which means in 12 years the car will be useless, but the battery will still be at 80%. MATHS.”
Fucking. What.
I had to dig deep to find this:
an average EV battery degrades at 1.8% per year, it will still have over 80% state of health after 12 years, generally beyond the usual life of a fleet vehicle.
You still have to assume they're using average fleet vehicles use as their comparison, but at the same time also that they're using 80% battery as comparable.
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MG started offering a lifetime warranty for the battery and drivetrains in Thailand.
It confirms what the article is saying, manufacturers know with their experience that the rest of the car will break before the battery or the motor does.
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