Welcome to Daystrom Institute!
Serious, in-depth discussion about Star Trek from both in-universe and real world perspectives.
Read more about how to comment at Daystrom.
1. Explain your reasoning
All threads and comments submitted to the Daystrom Institute must contain an explanation of the reasoning put forth.
2. No whinging, jokes, memes, and other shallow content.
This entire community has a “serious tag” on it. Shitposts are encouraged in Risa.
3. Be diplomatic.
Participate in a courteous, objective, and open-minded fashion. Be nice to other posters and the people who make Star Trek. Disagree respectfully and don’t gatekeep.
4. Assume good faith.
Assume good faith. Give other posters the benefit of the doubt, but report them if you genuinely believe they are trolling. Don’t whine about “politics.”
5. Tag spoilers.
Historically Daystrom has not had a spoiler policy, so you may encounter untagged spoilers here. Ultimately, avoiding online discussion until you are caught up is the only certain way to avoid spoilers.
6. Stay on-topic.
Threads must discuss Star Trek. Comments must discuss the topic raised in the original post.
The /r/DaystromInstitute wiki held a number of popular Star Trek watch guides. We have rehosted them here:
Because of his original purpose, it makes sense that the Doctor wouldn’t have held a Starfleet rank during Voyager.
However, in Prodigy, he still doesn’t have pips. This leads to my questions:
According to the STO wiki, he doesn’t wear them by choice but does have a rank. That might be a reasonable explanation; I can’t imagine Janeway not at least trying to field commission him.
In Voyager, he's shown to have pips. In fact, switching him over to Command mode shows a deliberate animation of pips showing up on hid collar.
However, it is possible that this is something that only applied on the Voyager thanks to their excsptional circumstances, and regular Starfleet doesn't recognise it as a "proper" rank.
- Can a self-aware hologram hold rank or a non-com position in Starfleet?
Technically, yes, in practice, it would be a bit more complicated. A lot of the Federation still has issues around recognising the personhood of inorganics, and a good many of them would hold the early Voyager attitude of seeing him as a regular hologram/tool that the Voyager got too attached to, like the Enterprise did with their Data.
- If so, how would the Doctor attaib it?
The regular way, in theory. The ranking system technically doesn't change depending on what species you are, other than some minor twiddling to account for your species' characteristics.
It would be silly to expect a species who can't speak to give verbal commands, for example, or give them a crew who is not receptive to telepathy.
In practice, there's a lot more complications, like how the crew of the Sutherland nearly mutinied against Data because they believed him to be a dispassionate computer weighing lives at data points.
In Voyager, he’s shown to have pips. In fact, switching him over to Command mode shows a deliberate animation of pips showing up on hid collar.
The EMH is never shown with pips on Voyager. The "ECH" was shown with pips appearing on its first appearance, however:
spoiler
The entire ECH subroutine was created as the result of The Doctor's daydreaming, so the visualisation of a rank appearing out of thin air makes sense in that context.
The only other time the ECH mode was used in a genuine emergency (Season 7, Episodes 16/17), he did not have pips.
Data was artificial and autonomous. The Dr originally wasn't autonomous, it could be argued he's just part of the ship, but the holo emitter changed that. I'm amazed the Daystrom institute let him keep it, but since it's apparently his, and that makes him autonomous, I would argue he's just like Data (minus the permanent corporeality of course). I suppose there's a question about ownership given his origins as a Starfleet asset, but since he can be replaced with a copy of the original program, there's no real material loss in letting him leave the ship.
The Dr originally wasn't autonomous, it could be argued he's just part of the ship, but the holo emitter changed that.
There's an argument to be made that that changed the moment he started to be established as a sapient individual of his own.
I'm amazed the Daystrom institute let him keep it, but since it's apparently his, and that makes him autonomous, I would argue he's just like Data (minus the permanent corporeality of course).
It bring future Federation technology bequeathed to him may help there too. The Federation likely doesn't want to risk issues with the Time Police by confiscating and studying the emitter, so just let him keep it to do with as he wants.
There's also an ethical argument that removing it would severely restrict his ability to move, given that Starfleet would have trouble furnishing him with a sufficient replacement.
I suppose there's a question about ownership given his origins as a Starfleet asset, but since he can be replaced with a copy of the original program, there's no real material loss in letting him leave the ship.
We also know from Prodigy that the Voyager was intended to be shelved for study, so it no longer being active might also be a good reason to allow the Doctor to roam about, instead of effectively trapping him on the inactive ship while Starfleet scientists pulled it apart and studied every crook and nanny.
He would most certainly be assigned a rank if for no other reason than to ensure he (as an asset) is treated by crewmen with care and respect. It is the same approach in logic that militaries and police use with K-9 units. Dogs always outrank the handlers as a further mechanism to ensure proper treatment of the self-aware asset.
That didn't stop that one guy from trying to dismantle Data. They had to have a whole court episode to re-affirm Data's autonomy and personhood.
Even without an official rank, on Voyager he was still considered a Department Head and (more importantly) the CMO, which gave significant authority (even exceeding the Captain on certain medical matters), regardless of whether or not he was ever given any pips. The same thing would likely apply on subsequent postings.
If he ever had to be assigned a rank for clerical/administrative purposes, it would probably be the default required rank for a Starfleet CMO candidate for the class of ship he was serving on.
Voyager's original CMO was a Lieutenant Commander, which is presumably pretty typical for a ship of Voyager's size. Bashir was commissioned as a Lieutenant Junior Grade to be the CMO on a backwater space station, so that's presumably the bare minimum.
I would expect the Doctor's first official rank (whatever that might be) to stick with him, plus promotion as appropriate. Adjusting it up and down based on posting would be a bizare thing to do for any other crewperson, and I'm sure The Doctor would object vigorously to such a thing.
Who could stop Janeway from field commissioning him?
Admiral Jellicoe, apparently.
The bor- no, no . . 8472? No wait.. her and Paris’ lizard kids coming to earth instinctively and for some reason hating the doctor?
I thought he was the commander of the Atlantis expedition.
I've never watched Stargate, except for the first film and a few random SG-1 episodes. I knew Sirtis was in it at some point, but not Picardo.
Connor Trineer (Trip) and Colm Meaney (O'Brien) playing villains too.
I like to play a game where if you see one Star Trek actor you often see others and you have to spot them.
Quite a few have been in CSI over the years.
Gargoyles (where Frakes and Sirtis are the main villains) even cracks a joke, "You and what Starfleet!"
I heard Takei and Frakes were on Adventure Time. After a Google, in addition, it seems so was Sirtis, Burton, and a bunch of Lower Decks actors.
Kate Mulgrew is great in Infinity Train.
I think one of my favorites, though, is the completely unrelated freebee for your cellphone randomly dropped for Kevin by Takei at the end of an episode of Community.
I love that game. Recently been putting on the old 90s Superman show and it's got a good amount of Trek crossover, including Jonathan Frakes as a bizarre villain. Also a cameo from the late great James Earl Jones...
Cheers is another that comes to mind. Young Brent Spiner and Kate Mulgrew years before they were famous and, later, Kirstie Alley is a main character. And of course Norm == Morn.
I can’t imagine Janeway not at least trying to field commission him.
Cries in Ensign Kim
On one hand, (insert AGIMUS laughing noises).
On the other hand, Harry already had a rank where the doctor didn't.