this post was submitted on 21 Aug 2023
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Late Stage Capitalism

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[–] relay@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If true, cool, but I don't think that is convincing to anyone that disagrees in the slightest.

You can talk about his accomplishments of tactically industrializing the agrarian country to an industrial power quickly to eliminate the nazi threat, which is more punchy than

"people talk shit about me now, but wait a few generations and they'll say i was right"

[–] birdcat@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I mean yea. But did you ever talk to an actual liberal irl? I once got called crazy (by multiple people in a group 😥) for saying that without Stalin Hitler would have won the war.

But look who agrees with you 😊

As Chuev records, Molotov stated that he was "not interested in who said what and where, who spat on what...Lenin didn't write memoirs, nor did Stalin [...] I write about socialism -- what it is and, as peasants say, 'what we need it for.'

[–] hglman@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Much like capitalists don't make goods, Stalin didn't win a war. Great man theory is lib shit.

[–] birdcat@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Sharp dialectics you picked up there, be careful to not cut yourself with it, no one said ww2 was just Stalin and Hitler engaging in a fistfight. But if it pleases you, here is a less offensive version: without [nameless non-great individual who would have done what a random peasant named Joseph did] Hitler would have won the war.

[–] birdcat@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Is it confirmed that he actually said that?

[–] ReadFanon@lemmygrad.ml 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's according to Molotov's recollection. From Сто сорок бесед с Молотовым by Felix Chuev:

Stalin himself, I remember, said during the war: “I know that after my death, my grave will be piled with rubbish. But the winds of history will ruthlessly dispel it!

[–] birdcat@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Just to get it right. Felix Chuev said that Molotov said that he remembers Stalin said that?

Is that enough to say with confidence that Stalin actually said it? (serious question, don't mean to suggest Stalin did not say it; I hope so much that he said it, that I want to be as sure as possible 🙈)

[–] ReadFanon@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yep. Chuev conducted a series of lengthy interviews with Molotov over the period of 1969 - 1986 and he kept extensive notes about what Molotov attested to.

While I can't seem to find an English language translation of 140 Conversations with Molotov, his other work, Molotov Remembers, is frequently cited as a primary source by historians.

Given that it's testimony from something which was said many years prior to the interview I'd hazard a guess that Molotov was paraphrasing because the chances of it being an exact quote are vanishingly slim but such is the nature of historical work; often the eyewitness testimony is going to be somewhat hazy, especially long after the fact.

I personally would feel comfortable in saying that Stalin had actually said something to this effect, if not exactly word for word, to Molotov.

[–] mihor@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago

Za Stalina! ❤️