The GOP attitude toward Dreamers is just another side of their bigotry, hate, and short-thinking ignorance. We, as a society, want people to have access to health care for a multitude of reasons. But not the good ol' GOP shitheads.
this post was submitted on 05 May 2024
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When veterans cant get healthcare and illegals can, theres something very wrong. What should happen is them getting deported. Otherwise, it just encourages more illegal immigrants.
Does it not strike you as odd to say "we as a society want X, except for [approximately half of the people in our society who want the opposite of X]"?
Not really. People who don't want healthcare are saying they don't really care if diseases and misery spread to all and show an incredible, painful ignorance of science. Fuck 'em.
Yeah, you can't apeal to "society has decided X" as an argument, if you also hold that half the people in society don't count because you disagree with them. That's actually the opposite of what 'society' means in that context.
OK, I guess I should say "civilization" instead.
Under the initiative, more than 100,000 illegal immigrants will be granted free healthcare under the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare. The so-called “Dreamers” will be able to enroll in the program’s health care system beginning next year.
Who the eff are Dreamers?
From the pro-genocide Anti-Defamation League:
young people impacted by DACA and the DREAM Act are often referred to as “Dreamers.”
The recipients of DACA are young people who have grown up as Americans, identify themselves as Americans, and many speak only English and have no memory of or connection with the country where they were born. Under current immigration law, most of these young people had no way to gain legal residency even though they have lived in the U.S. most of their lives.
Since DACA began, approximately 800,000 people have been approved for the program. To be eligible, applicants had to have arrived in the U.S. before age 16 and lived here since June 15, 2007. They could not have been older than 30 when the Department of Homeland Security enacted the policy in 2012. DACA applicants have to provide evidence they were living in the U.S. at the prescribed times, proof of education and confirmation of their identities. They also had to pass background, fingerprint and other biometric checks that record identifying biological features.
Well, now we know who they are, but ARE THEY LEGAL? That's the fundamental question in this carnival of marginalization.
No. No, they're not. But by law, they are protected from deportation, authorized to work and go to school, get a social security number, and some other stuff. And the only reason they're not legal is because the "We support a legal path to citizenship for immigrants that go through the proper channels" people do not, in fact, support a legal path to citizenship for them, with a bit of help from weak-kneed Democrats.
And now, this article has the audacity to stoke the fears of illegal immigration? Standard Republican politics: Republican solutions for Republican-caused problems.
Republicans didn't invite people to come here illegally.
No, they didn't. They were given a chance to "protect the innocent", as they call kids, and decided to betray them anyway.
Dreamers are illegal immigrants who were abused by their parents. This does not mean we shouldnt deport them.
Abuse for abuse is not a cure.
Deportion is not abuse, why on Earth would it be?
I think we have fundementally different ideas of what abuse and deportation are
Deportion is not abuse
The recipients of DACA are young people who have grown up as Americans, identify themselves as Americans, and many speak only English and have no memory of or connection with the country where they were born.
You would send someone to a country they have no memory of, no connection to, and cannot speak the language and not call it abuse? They're not being sent home. They're effectively being sent to a foreign country.
Exactly. That's why it's abusive. It'd be like sending a random conservative to Hungary. Though CPAC attendees may love Hungary, I doubt they'd like to be sent there forcefully when they identify as an American through and through.
The abusive thing was to not deport them sooner.
It's not an apt comparison.
It is not sending a random person to a random country.
It is sending a citizen of that country back to their country.
One can agree or disagree with doing it, but it isn't a random person being sent to a random country.
If we want to get particular, it is the right thing to do under international law.
It is sending a citizen of that country back to their country.
When you say "their" country, what do you mean?
The country of their origin and citizenship. You don't identify as an American; you ARE an American.
They were not born here, and their parents were not citizens. They are not citizens of American.
If they are deported, they are being sent back to their rightful country. The one that can issue them a passport.
The only reason I'm a citizen of American is because of the 14th Amendment of the Constitution:
Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
That is, the law of the U.S. defines my status as a citizen of the U.S. by virtue of my being born here.
Still, there are four other ways to become a citizen of the U.S.
- by naturalization
- by marriage
- through parents
- through the military
These pathways are all outlined in various laws.
Again, the status of immigrants who are now citizens is determined by law.
I said earlier that "the 'We support a legal path to citizenship for immigrants that go through the proper channels' people do not, in fact, support a legal path to citizenship for them". That is, Republicans generally refused to grant citizenship to immigrants by passing the DREAM Act. In their inability to govern, they did not pass a law.
You make it seem as if citizenship is an inherent characteristic of being born in the U.S. It is not. Repeal the 14th Amendment, and birthright citizenship goes away. Change the immigration laws, and lesser or greater numbers of immigrants can be granted citizenship. You're right, "They are not citizens of America." But they could have been (and could be) at the stroke of pen. It is the law that determines citizenship. While I'm both an American citizen and identify as American, dreamers only identify as American. It's only because of xenophobia that dreamers are not citizens.
Your parents were not citizens? You didn’t serve in the military ?
Yes it is the law that determines citizenship. Not identifying.
They are not citizens. They are citizens of somewhere else. When we deport them. That’s where we need to end them under the law.
the law that determines citizenship. Not identifying.
Which is funny, because these folks are probably more American than I am.
Keep pushing lies, liar...
Ah, Ye Olde sophist personal attack, the bastion of those with no argument to make.
Welp, you've convinced me.
It's not a personal attack. It's a statement of fact. Don't like it? Don't lie.