A place for majestic STEMLORD peacocking, as well as memes about the realities of working in a lab.
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This is a science community. We use the Dawkins definition of meme.
Water and steam just too goddamn convenient. Super high latent heat so it can move a ton of energy with a quick phase change, works at reasonable pressures and temperatures, stays liquid all the time when you want it to so pumps work, and it's so readily available as to be damn near free. Super cool!
also almost non-corrosive, non-toxic, doesn't damage ozone layer, zero global warming potential, non-flammable etc (lots of organic rankine cycle fluids fail one or more of these. tradeoff is utilization of lower temperature sources)
zero global warming potential
This one isn't right. Nobody will complain about you releasing it, but it's a quite strong global warming gas.
Very strong GWP, but it does this cool thing where it condenses when it hits colder air and falls back to the ground in liquid state, thus removing itself from the atmosphere...
(It's equivalent GWP is near zero and is estimated to be between 0.0005 and -0.001)
it condenses when it hits colder air and falls back to the ground in liquid state, thus removing itself from the atmosphere
Oh sure ... blame it on the rain.
Tell me more about this incredible process. Does it have a name?
If it doesn't I propose a simple and descriptive "waterfall".
Power station fall-out
But it can be contained and condensed for reused.
It’s great for nuclear reactors. Hot rock make turbine go brrr
Best explanation of nuclear energy I’ve ever heard
Solar photovoltaic is the only one i can think of that isn't just a fancy way to make steam
EDIT
ok let's clarify to say a method that isn't related to movement of a fluid that spins a turbine. So not windmills (air is a fluid), not hydro, not geothermal, etc.
Piezoelectricity is the only other I can really think of. But it's not like we are out here smacking crystals with hammers to make power.
Why not, though?
On a serious note: that's exactly what we're doing with lighters. At least some of them use piezo elements and not the sparkly wheel thingy to ignite the gas. And it's real fun to zap yourself with it.
Yeah, it was a fun journey of learning to look into it. It’s quartz btw. Very piezoelectric and extremely common.
All power generation is either solar or 'make thing spin', unless we're including RTGs and Piezoelectrics.
Hydro power uses running water not hot water.
Squeezing can be converter to electricity with pizeo electric. Heat difference can be converted into electric directly with peltier devices. Both of these are very inefficient ways to make electricy.
That's why Photovoltaic Cells got the Nobel Prize, imo. The only new way to generate electricity actually put to use AFAIK.
Of course it's completely inefficient at large scale and they just revert back to mirroring light into a collection tower where steam happens.
Wasn't the main appeal of the mirror installations that you can store the heat somewhat efficiently? Rooftop solar is cost effective even here in Germany, where darkness and shadows loom around every corner.
The nonchalant poetry of your reply made me look up and appreciate your username.
These numbers change every year, but: solar panels on roofs don't track so they'd be lucky to get 20%, average closer to 12%, efficiency and slowly degrade over a few years. Sun tracking panels can reach a maximum of around 40%, theoretically, but on average more like 20%-30%. You have to subtract the negative impact of creating and assembling the materials from it's lifetime effectiveness, in Germany I believe Hydrogen Steel exists which is much greener than other types of smelting, or otherwise Aluminum is the higher grade material used for such things, and Photovoltaic Panels have a very specialized Glass in most cases that has to be exceptionally clear and strong. If the capacitance of the system is not enough to hold the produced power then an electrical failure will occur, so you must also include large commercial and industrial batteries.
Meanwhile, a Heliostat (a Collection Tower and Mirror Array) out in the desert has a theoretical efficiency just below 70%. Furthermore, if the capacity of the grid fills up then the array can be disable by adjusting the mirrors and excess power can be stored for extremely long periods of time by utilizing molten salt beneath the tower.
These efficiency numbers refer to how much of the heat energy from full spectrum light hitting the array is converted into electricity. Home panels are nice because you can put them on your home
Yeah, but PV is dirt cheap nowadays. Also
degrade over a few years.
If by "few" you mean like 30-50 then sure, they degrade. But it certainly beats anything with a spinning turbine. Or anything with moving parts really. PV is purely solid state physics, you can't get more longevity than that.
If the capacitance of the system is not enough to hold the produced power then an electrical failure will occur, so you must also include large commercial and industrial batteries
That's not true. You can also simply turn PV off. The inverters only run when they sense 50 Hz on their output terminals, it's easy to have them turn off when it's 50.2 instead. Basically all big powerplants follow that rule already, ordered by things like shutoff time etc.
a Heliostat (a Collection Tower and Mirror Array) out in the desert
Funny that you specified in the desert. The appeal of PV is not only that it's cheap and easy, it also scales down to small investments and local power generation. If base load actually becomes a problem concentrated solar power will be relevant. But for now, slapping a few solar panels on your roof just makes sense.
There’s also wind. But that just skips the steam
There is an argument to be made that the wind power is technically steam power, given the moist gaseous fluid turning a turbine, but that's silly.
Cost per MWh is what tends to matter more than efficiency. Photovoltaics have become dirt cheap. Mirror collection systems haven't been able to keep up, and the projects for them are basically defunct at this point.
Was worth trying, though. It wasn't obvious that photovoltaics would get so damn cheap 10 or 20 years ago.
"I found a new source of naturally occurring waste heat"
Yep. Angry rock make water go hiss.
Some types of fusion can bypass steam generation and use what's creatively called Direct Energy Conversion. If the fusion products are charged particles they can be passed through a magnetic field to separate them based on charge and collected onto plates. When you look at the electric potential between the plates you've effectively created a voltage, no steam necessary. It's also theoretically possible to do the same with some types of fission products too.
/uj Steam is just an intermediary form for almost all these tho (except maybe geothermal? not sure), not the real source.
Steam just makes sense as a fluid for heat engines, thermal power plants are mostly steam, except when gas turbines are involved, but even then there's most of the time steam bottoming cycle. (gas turbine burns something, then exhaust is hot enough to power steam cycle) Unless thermal power plant is small, then it's more likely to be diesel engine (up to few MW). Only when it's photovoltaics, or hydropower, or wind farm (or tidal powerplant, or some other weird ones) there's no place for steam to be involved (solar thermal plants sometimes use steam cycle). Geothermal powerplants use steam if source is hot enough, otherwise it's something more volatile in organic Rankine cycle
Hydroelectric is just liquid steam, and wind is just cold, thin steam.
Geothermal power still uses steam to generate electricity. It's steams all the way down.
I like piezoelectrics and kinetic generators. The only two methods of generating electricity I know of that don't involve steam other than solar panels.
At least, I think they're different... Is a standard copper wire+magnet generator pizeoelectric? Or is it simply the operation is similar in that you generate electricity from moving things together? Like the difference between tiny little things in your shirt that generate electricity as you move around vs those flash lights you shake to charge.
Piezoelectric effect is when you vibrate certain crystals and they give off electricity. It's also reversible. You can feed them electricity to generate sound. The beep-boop sound from small electronic devices is usually from a piezo speaker, because they're dirt cheap.
You don't get significant amounts of power out of it, though.
They’re different. The piezoelectric effect converts pressure to charge. However steam is just kinetic with an extra step
It always produces unbelievably great memes when another person discovers how humanity generates energy from splitting atoms. I was baffled, too.