this post was submitted on 06 Jun 2024
40 points (62.2% liked)
Asklemmy
43963 readers
2225 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- !lemmy411@lemmy.ca: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_A@discuss.tchncs.de~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
no. I'm probably a communist but authoritarianism can fucking shove it
Fredrich Engels, 1872: On authority
Found the tankie! ☝️
How about, I don't know, establishing some sort of democracy? Just a crazy idea
Oh, but they did.
It just doesn't resemble the bourgeois 'democracy' we have in the west, but rather something else entirely that better fits the 'for the people, by the people, of the people" definition of democracy.
Remind me what happened to the Soviet union with their "Democracy"?
Got captured by anti-communists, who then proceeded to march tanks through moscow to bomb the supreme soviet (ironic, right?) and dissolved the union, strip all of its capital assets leading to one of the largest peacetime drop in living standards in human history.
Maybe capitalist states should do that, but they won’t because they’re capitalist states. They’ll form bourgeois democracies at best and fascism at worst[1][2][3].
You misunderstood me. I'm saying after the revolution. The Engels quote implies that because revolution is authoritarian, so is whatever system it implements. Which I disagree with
What your genius idea is missing is that there is an already established society with a ruling class, is your plan to ask nicely? 😅
The point Engels is making is that revolution is about establishing one group authority over the already established authority. In a society where might makes right, only might can resolve it.
Yeah we should never rebel, just listen to authority...
Big \ S
READ THE FIRST 3 SENTENCES.
"Everyone I disagree with is a liberal"
At what point does a leftist system become authoritarian? Where is the line? Is it just a vibe check, or is there a definitive metric we can check?
I mean that's a good question but there's no reason to apply it just to leftist governments
There is, for the purpose of this question.
You have separated "Authoritarians" from the rest of "Communists." At what point does Communism become authoritarian?
I'm framing this question in this manner to try to understand what you believe Communism should look like in a manner that goes against what people often described as tankies want it to look like.
The line is when the communist system collapses as usual and a dictatorship seizes power.
So Cuba, China, Vietnam, and the DPRK are by your definition not authoritarian, got it.
Does that make you a tankie?